Reasons why it is GOOD to have many kids...

If I didn't know better, it would seem that the material things are the most important in a child's life? The kids don't need constant snacking and 10 pairs of pants. What they need building a character growing up, they need not fear the big wide world. School is good, but family is the main contributor to the character. I find people from many-children families fascinating. (Bad apples can happen anywhere).

Yes, the character and people skills would be on the top of my list of pluses. The rest of the reasons I wrote were just a side thoughts, the most likely bonuses, but not my main focus.

Hopefully there will be minds who will see the positives, instead of siding with uniformly scared of big families.

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squinney wrote:

Okay. I see where you're goin'... Um, er, Okay, so having a lot of siblings did have positives.

Dad never did really know who backed the truck into the side of the barn.

And, the forts we could build... Man!

There!!!!!

Freaking F-U-N !!!! And OH the memories!!!!!

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Re: Reasons why it is GOOD to have many kids...

redpickle wrote:

Chai wrote:
but to say that someone can't be lonely, depressed, will have a secure family business, and never be jobless is ridiculous. That goes for any of your other assertions.

The likelihood of this things happening to a person with many siblings is much higher than to a person with none or one sibling.

Really?

I'm an only child born in 1941.

I take surmising by many re only children or cheaper by the dozen with. at this point, some amusement, and I take your posts as venturous amusement, redpickle, though I gather you are attracted to the numbers.

Indeed, I've taken this thread as a kind of answer to another about children being horrible by Primativo.

If you actually mean that I, an only child, am bereft, then, you need to get a grip and look around.

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Redpickle said:

Quote:

The story continues: Debbie's grown up, has a family, lives her life (whether rich or poor). Some of her siblings live nearby, some dispersed elsewhere.

Debbie has had her share of bad life events: one of her brothers died, her mother gets older and weaker, one of her children her child got in with a bad bunch.

She has had comfort of her living siblings through the death of her brother. They as a family will always find a place for their mother, the nursing home is out of question. There are several different countries/cities she can send her troubled son to get away from the bad crowd, and a couple of brothers have businesses where the boy can get a job and get a footing.

Debbie's classmates, Clara and Richard, who used to have plenty of clothes, had one and none siblings respectively. When Clara's brother tragically died, she felt overwhelmingly alone in the world, and her mother who started having Alzeimers were a crushing responsibility. Her mother had to go to a sub-standard nursing home where she eventually died.

Richard was the only child and got the best education. As the only child, though, he got used to the world revolving around him. He had hard time holding jobs where there is subordination. He is p**d off at the world and thinks it unfair.

Yes, quite an imagination - but the funny thing is - this sounds like the story of my life! (Except that I didn't have sixteen siblings - I had five- four who are still living).

When my brother died - I was distraught. And the only people I could turn to who I knew had any inkling of what I was feeling, were my siblings. I couldn't even really talk to my mom and dad about him, because as distraught as I was - they were a thousand times more distraught- and if I saw any sign of them achieving some peace over the whole thing, I couldn't bear to burden them and maybe shatter that peace by bringing him up to them.

And now, the fact that I have siblings to help care for my aging parents is the only reason I feel at all able to live my own life without devoting myself fulltime to their care. There are four other adults, each with a spouse, as well as fifteen grandchildren- some of whom are also adults-available to help with their care.

Yeah, I wore hand-me-downs- and the big treat for us was a couple of gallons of vanilla ice-cream and bottles of root beer for root beer floats once a week on grocery shopping night - but I wouldn't have traded being in a big family for anything in the world.

When I had my son, my husband was happy to stop at one. I loved my son immensely and I thought "Yeah, okay...I can't imagine loving another child as much anyway." But then I went to the funerals of the mother and father of my friend Shawn. They died within a year of each other. Shawn was an only child and when I saw him standing alone at the graveside of his mother - his last remaining family member - I decided, "No way - I don't ever want Joseph to be so alone. If there's one thing I want to give him in his life, it's a sibling". And we adopted my daughter and I have never, ever regretted that.
In face, one of the only regrets in my life (in terms of what I feel I should have done but never did do) is that I didn't adopt another child. I really wanted to, and I should have- I loved rearing children and my daughter always wanted a younger sibling and she would have been an awesome big sister- there are lots of reasons I should have - but I got a job instead and felt that I didn't want to put my child in daycare. So in essence I traded another child for a job - I don't know if it was worth it...but I've learned to be happy with what I have.

But yeah Redpickle - much of what you said about large families rings true and resonates with me (from my life experience)- although of course I believe that everyone is individual and should be free to do or feel whatever they want in that regard.

Are you yourself from a large family? Or do you have many children of your own?

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Re: Reasons why it is GOOD to have many kids...

ossobuco wrote:

Indeed, I've taken this thread as a kind of answer to another about children being horrible by Primativo.

No, this is not an answer to Primitivo who is an idiot. It coincided with that post.

There was a post here a few months ago that I couldn't get out of my mind, I think, it was an article about a Ukranian woman who gave birth to a 17th child.

The reaction on this board was uniform in "How appaling that is!" Hm, I thought, is it really that nobody in this developed world sees the pluses? Or is it just this board? Have we moved that far, to the opposing end of what used to be a norm? (Do not want to go into the birth control topic here, it's good to have a choice, - but are there people at all who see the good sides of having many kids?)

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Re: Reasons why it is GOOD to have many kids...

ossobuco wrote:

If you actually mean that I, an only child, am bereft, then, you need to get a grip and look around.

Let's agree that the nature of the topic requires wide sweeps, the general trends that of course consist of many single events that may or may not conform to the trend. Therefore, I am not taking stabs at anyone in particular in this board's community.

However, I also understand that the only child has a heightened sense of self-entitlement, and that prevents that person to admit in public the weaknesses that he or she knows deep inside aoout himself. (again, not pointing fingers). I consider myself a half-only child (my sister is 13 years yonger) and can speak from experience. I also have fascination with big families - maybe because I didn't have it.

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Sure there are good sides, for example, with my friend the pediatrician and the lawyers and scientists who were her brothers and sisters, some of them peace corps volunteers, they lucky with just the right parents...

I remember her, no aspersions meant, as least able to follow a conversation, least sympathetic or sympathizing with others - while doing vast good.

here re last iteration of post -
Does this mean I need to crawl in a hole being an only child?

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ossobuco wrote:

here re last iteration of post -
Does this mean I need to crawl in a hole being an only child?

again, I am quasi only child, too, so if we are to crawl into a hole let's crawl together, with champaigne.

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aidan wrote:

but the funny thing is - this sounds like the story of my life!

I swear, I don't have a crystal ball! The coincidence is remarkable.

The thing is, I am scared (however remote it may seem) of something like that happening to may kids - and they only have each other.

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Re: Reasons why it is GOOD to have many kids...

redpickle wrote:

ossobuco wrote:
If you actually mean that I, an only child, am bereft, then, you need to get a grip and look around.

Let's agree that the nature of the topic requires wide sweeps, the general trends that of course consist of many single events that may or may not conform to the trend. Therefore, I am not taking stabs at anyone in particular in this board's community.

However, I also understand that the only child has a heightened sense of self-entitlement, and that prevents that person to admit in public the weaknesses that he or she knows deep inside aoout himself. (again, not pointing fingers). I consider myself a half-only child (my sister is 13 years yonger) and can speak from experience. I also have fascination with big families - maybe because I didn't have it.

Geez, you must have read a book and bought the content. I thought you were playing, but you mean this stuff.

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I've been reading along and objecting :-) but getting that it's just kind of a thought exercise and so not really saying anything. One thing I can't seem to stifle though; Families are not the only possible support systems/ social interaction available to people.

If you're talking about a mother and father facing life on a deserted island or something, yes, I think a lot of kids would be a good idea. But for most people in most situations, there are ways to create strong and lasting bonds with people who did not happen to emerge from your mother's womb.

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Some of the benefit's:

If you're quick with a knife you can eat your siblings during the lean times.

You can prostitute your siblings and earn extra income for the family's needs.

You can run a high-volume meth-lab with the youngest acting as dope mules.

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"However, I also understand that the only child has a heightened sense of self-entitlement, and that prevents that person to admit in public the weaknesses that he or she knows deep inside aoout him."

Bullshit, if not all the time, much of the time.

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Some more benefit's:

You can run your own cottage-industry style sweat-shop with self-contained forced labor, inspired by either the Nazi's treatment of the Jews, or the modern Chinese economic model.

Low unit cost per widget and thus high profit margins are assured with the added benefit of minimized labor code adherence and union influence.

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Pro of having a huge litter of offspring as my grandmothers did

- So many heads walking around with my thoughts printed in their brains

- when mom (me) says "How about a mother daughter day?", that kid will jump ! because she isn't used to getting time alone with me (less eye rolling and trying to escape it)

- Sex education is taken care of. They will all see it first hand and hear about from every tom dick and joe in the house by the time they can walk. No escaping the kids ears and eyes.

- Always a team to play MY favorite sports with on demand

- Always get to have a baby related to me in the house. Either mine, or a kids kid.
Or a kids kid kid.

Believe it or not, the idea of having a whole slew of kids appeals to me.

Then I think.....Overpopulation!...and so it will never be...not by my giving birth anyways!

Children who need and an open home full of love and life and choas, hey, I grew up around that ...and there is a lot of great stuff there.

But no need to pop them out yourself. There are plenty of folk in this world who need and want that - and aren't getting it.

So I love condoms, and so should you. lol.

The idea of giving birth to kid after kid like a cattle also does not appeal to me.

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redpickle wrote:

aidan wrote:
but the funny thing is - this sounds like the story of my life!

I swear, I don't have a crystal ball! The coincidence is remarkable.

The thing is, I am scared (however remote it may seem) of something like that happening to may kids - and they only have each other.

Yes, I often remind my kids that they only have each other, and so they should be kind to one another because no one knows them like the other as they are the only two people in the world who grew up with the specific circumstances they've shared and the memories that are particular to their lives.
I know that's a tie I've always treasured with my brothers and especially with my sisters - to the point I feel a little guilty that I didn't provide my daughter with the chance to have a sister. No one knows and understands my history as intimately as they (my sisters) do - because they lived a similar one- and those are the familial relationships I treasure the most (along with my mother/daughter one).

That's not to say I believe my situation is better or more meaningful than anyone else's. If I were a more solitary person - I'd probably have really appreciated being an only child - it just happened to work really well for me... or maybe it's just that most people learn to be happy with what's familiar to and available to them.

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Re: Reasons why it is GOOD to have many kids...

redpickle wrote:

- No headache where to find a nanny or babysitter, how much to pay, how to make a background/criminal check.

- The kids get hands-on lessons on cooperation, on dealing with older and younger people.

- when they grow up, they have less stress of finding a job since so many relatives create a safety net of potential jobs

- they can have a family business which is almost always more loyal

- less problems/anxiety in school since there's always an older one to get comfort from, or the younger one to look after

- emotional support net throughout life

- the mother is not as exhausted as it may seem from the outside because there are always older helpers looking after the younger siblings

- loads of friends right in your home

- fun for the kids!

- help with homework

red pickle, you have both totally missed my point, but even more telling of your motive of convincing people having a large family is ideal is the way you change your words to suit your purpose.

in you initial post above, you indicate nothing other than your statements would be true....then, when confronted, you change your words to "less likey", and, with no backup data.

My husband is the 10th of 11 children. Is that a large enough family for you?

In his family, there is a pedaphile (maybe 2....one of his brothers, long dead, was mentally impaired, so I've never been clear on if he just didn't have the capacity to differentiate between appropriate and inappropriate activies....in any event he was institutionalized for the last few years of his short life)

There are also at least 3 alcoholics/drug addicts, my husband (25 years sober) being one of them.

At least some of of the siblings also have problems with depression.

Some of the siblings are closer than others...but honestly, none of them are immediately on the phone with each other when they have a problem. They're spread all over the country, and the one's who are in the same state are there because that's where they chose to live, not because a relative is near by. They live in Idaho, Illinois, Oklahoma, Texas, Virginia, Florida. The 2 in Fla see each other the most, maybe every couple of months, and that because they live in towns next to each other, and one sister rents a condo to the other. The others see each other once a year, once every few years, once every decade, or never. Not much more for phone calls either.

No family businesses, no relatives working for others.

No advice back and forth about child rearing, in fact, more than half of them had zero or only 1 child themselves.

In honesty, most of them get along with each other just fine, but it isn't some love fest of shared childhood memories.

I'm from a family of 5, .....it might not be a large enough family for you, but bottom line, the most positve attribut any one of us has to the other is apathy....3 alcoholics, one dead from it at 32, 1 depressed with multiple suicide attempts, 2 OCD and anxiety sufferers.

So, take your theory of FUN!...COOPERATION!....SUPPORT!....YAY MEMORIES!!!......and stick it in your ear.

I could go on, but why bother? You've made your mind up, and facts won't sway you.

You don't come from a large family, or have one, so frankly, you have nothing to go by but some fantasy you've built in your head.

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'Course if redpickle wants a large family, I'm sure that several adoptions could be lined up, particularly of older children. What would Mr. redpickle (that sounds odd) say to such an idyllic arrangement?

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Re: Reasons why it is GOOD to have many kids...

Chai wrote:

My husband is the 10th of 11 children. Is that a large enough family for you?

In his family, there is a pedaphile (maybe 2....one of his brothers, long dead, was mentally impaired, so I've never been clear on if he just didn't have the capacity to differentiate between appropriate and inappropriate activies....in any event he was institutionalized for the last few years of his short life)

There are also at least 3 alcoholics/drug addicts, my husband (25 years sober) being one of them.

At least some of of the siblings also have problems with depression.

Some of the siblings are closer than others...but honestly, none of them are immediately on the phone with each other when they have a problem. They're spread all over the country, and the one's who are in the same state are there because that's where they chose to live, not because a relative is near by. They live in Idaho, Illinois, Oklahoma, Texas, Virginia, Florida. The 2 in Fla see each other the most, maybe every couple of months, and that because they live in towns next to each other, and one sister rents a condo to the other. The others see each other once a year, once every few years, once every decade, or never. Not much more for phone calls either.

No family businesses, no relatives working for others.

No advice back and forth about child rearing, in fact, more than half of them had zero or only 1 child themselves.

In honesty, most of them get along with each other just fine, but it isn't some love fest of shared childhood memories.

I'm from a family of 5, .....it might not be a large enough family for you, but bottom line, the most positve attribut any one of us has to the other is apathy....3 alcoholics, one dead from it at 32, 1 depressed with multiple suicide attempts, 2 OCD and anxiety sufferers.

So, take your theory of FUN!...COOPERATION!....SUPPORT!....YAY MEMORIES!!!......and stick it in your ear.

I could go on, but why bother? You've made your mind up, and facts won't sway you.

You don't come from a large family, or have one, so frankly, you have nothing to go by but some fantasy you've built in your head.

Do you think all of these circumstances exist solely because the families were so large or do you think that even if these particular parents had had one or two children, there's a good possibility that those children would have the same issues- maybe there'd just have been more money around to disguise the fact or build a better facade around it?

Some people definitely should not have large families...I know myself, I would be much less capable at handling six children than my mother was for various reasons having to do with our personalities...for instance, I don't like alot of noise and mess and clutter - and my mother thrives in that...

But in the line of work I'm in, I see alot of people who have children- sometimes even only one- who probably shouldn't have had children at all. But to say that the negatives of having a big family overwhelm or outweigh the positives without breaking things down variable by variable is just as stereotypical as saying having alot of children in a family is invariably beneficial for the children in that family.

Jespah's right though - foster care and adoption are a great option if you want to increase a family - although, alot of older children are placed in homes with the caveat that they either be the only child or the youngest child- as they need alot of time and attention and special care and they might act out some of the innappropriate behaviors they've been subjected to on younger children in the family. That's the main reason I didn't adopt an older child after my daughter- I went to the class and everything - but I just couldn't place her in such a risky position. Now she's old enough that she'd be the older. It's something to think about.

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Aidan, I don't think, in my husbands family, that the number of children has anything to do with their individual lives.

I was using that example to show pickle how naive his/her comments of togetherness, fun, cooperation and lifelong devotion is.

My husband is 61, and so, being the 10th of 11, I never had the opportunity to meet all of them.....I've met, let's see....5.
3 died before I ever met Mr. Tea....that leaves 2 I've never met, one whom the family shuns completely, and the other...well, just never have.

The 5 I've met are all fine people, and enjoyed spending time with each one of them. Some I've spent quite a bit of time with, some I've met only once or twice.

There's no hidden darkness and animosity...everyone just lives their own lives, has their own problems and joys, except for the one they all get along fine....just not living the life pickle believes would be.

His parents? From stories I've heard from the siblings I've met and Mr. Tea...

Never hit them, neither one drank, father had steady job, same one for 30 years plus, small community, neither parent cheated, both cared for and loved their children....normal problems....regular people.

I just believe it's too much to ask that just because a person comes from a large family, or single child home, it's predetermined whether that person will be caring, honest, depressed, angry, sharing....etc.

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Reasons why it is GOOD to have many kids...

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