<blinks>
I'm not sure if racist is the right term -- "Latino" is not even a race -- but you do agree that not all Latinos think alike, right?
ebrown's beginning of a point about Dominicans is a good one -- Butrflynet posted a really good blog post from a Latina about that. (Basically, that Dominicans are both black and Latino, and make up one of the biggest minorities in New York City for example... not sure about that last part, but there was some compelling figure about Dominicans and NYC. I'm just here for a sec, can't remember where it was, anyone else want to find it/ re-post it?)
At any rate, Latinos are an extremely heterogeneous bunch.
I watched the whole endorsement thingie, it was fun! I liked the boistrous young guys in the audience, behind the podium. They looked like they were at a concert or a sporting event, but they were at a political rally! I think that's great no matter how you slice it.
There was a weird moment I haven't seen reported where Ted gave a rousing applause line and appeared to be done, and the other three (Obama, Caroline, Patrick) rose for the post-speech, congratulatory part, but then whoops Ted wasn't done! They kinda faded back and Ted went back to the podium. Patrick asked Caroline something and she said "I have no idea...!"
Anyway, the whole thing was fun to watch, good speeches, several good lines. I really really like how Ted fought back against the inexperienced thing, both with specifics and by implication; Ted has served with both senators, and which one did he choose?
ebrown_p wrote:<<ebrown>>
Which JFK?
If you mean John F Kennedy, then you will wait a long time for him to endorse anyone.
In case you didnt know, he is dead.
If you mean John F Kerry, he endorsed Obama...
http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid51543.asp
But that has nothing to do with what I posted.
My comment was strictly to show how the modern dem party has moved away from what John Kennedy believed.
ossobuco wrote:I was thinking more re that the strong distaste for liberals is sort of fed by the endorsement - but I take your points, ebrown, especially the second and third ones.
I tend to agree with you Osso. I am more concerned with the memories the Kennedy name brings up for those who seem intent on protecting Obama from assassins by not voting for him It is quite a validation for the inclusive self-powered grassroots movement that Obama is igniting though. Seeing Caroline up there conveying her unknown memories of her own father (like Obama), knowing that it was JFK who made it possible for Barack's father to come to America for an education, brought tears to my eyes. Full circle indeed.
Have you read Tom Hayden's endorsement of Obama's movement? I posted a link in the Obama thread. That's another endorsement that gives me concern, but I liked how he explained his reasons for his endorsement. His words spoke for me too, more so than Caroline or Ted.
Yes, there was definitely some of that. I'd have to go to the transcript but there was one point when Obama was talking about Jack and Bobby and I said aloud, "look where it got them...!"
I decided that anyone who was concerned about assassination would already be concerned before the endorsement, though.
Agreed about super delegates btw. Plus I saw someone say (I think this was in the coverage rather than something I read) that it gives permission for people down the line to endorse Obama. Mr. Democratic Establishment did, that means they can too. More local people who may have even more immediate clout in their communities.
sozobe wrote:<blinks>
I'm not sure if racist is the right term -- "Latino" is not even a race -- but you do agree that not all Latinos think alike, right?
Racism isn't restricted to race, it also applies to ethnicity. I don't even like the term "Latinos" as its meaning is unclear. I prefer the term Hispanic which refers to those whose native language is Spanish.
Yes, Butrfly, I saw that and agreed with it. (said as much on the other thread but that was probably after you posted here.)
I'm hearing rumblings that there are some super delegates that are threatening to switch their previously announced endorsements from Clinton to Obama if she goes through with this Florida/Michigan delegate fight against the wishes of the DNC. No specifics yet...
Butrflynet wrote:I'm hearing rumblings that there are some super delegates that are threatening to switch their previously announced endorsements from Clinton to Obama if she goes through with this Florida/Michigan delegate fight against the wishes of the DNC. No specifics yet...
No link?
My little birdie tells me that Obama may pick up Al Gore.
Cycloptichorn
mysteryman wrote:ebrown_p wrote:<<ebrown>>
Which JFK?
If you mean John F Kennedy, then you will wait a long time for him to endorse anyone.
In case you didnt know, he is dead.
If you mean John F Kerry, he endorsed Obama...
http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid51543.asp
But that has nothing to do with what I posted.
My comment was strictly to show how the modern dem party has moved away from what John Kennedy believed.
Are you being purposely obtuse? I can't believe you can be so stupid as to not understand that EB was referring to John F. Kennedy. And it was EB's point that JFK can't endorse anyone. And your claim that Democrats don't believe in JFK's vision is your typical nonsensical straw nonsense. You have a hard enough articulating your own views. Don't dare try to speak for me or other Democrats.
Roxxxanne wrote:
Racism isn't restricted to race, it also applies to ethnicity. I don't even like the term "Latinos" as its meaning is unclear. I prefer the term Hispanic which refers to those whose native language is Spanish.
That's also unclear, though. Is the second-generation kid whose parents were born in Mexico and who is steeped in [insert term here] culture but whose native language is NOT Spanish Hispanic? And if he isn't, does the word have any particular meaning?
I use "Latino/ Latina" because it seems to be what most people who are of that ethnicity prefer. Again, though, not homogeneous, so you'll see variety as to what term is preferred, too.
This is the blog that Soz referred to earlier in the thread about Blacks and Latinos and identity politics.
http://alisavaldesrodriguez.blogspot.com/2008/01/obama-and-latino-vote-in-ny-times.html
I'm not going to post any excerpts. It needs to be read in full.
mysteryman wrote:Quote:Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty
And thats what makes JFK different then most of the dems today, IMHO.
A majority of the dems today dont agree with this statement from JFK's speech.
Actually, I agree with Mysteryman. Democrats aren't the same as they were back in the days of JFK. Numerous assassinations, Vietnam, Nixon and Watergate changed the Democrats and the nation. The country isn't the same as it was back then either.
sozobe wrote:Roxxxanne wrote:
Racism isn't restricted to race, it also applies to ethnicity. I don't even like the term "Latinos" as its meaning is unclear. I prefer the term Hispanic which refers to those whose native language is Spanish.
That's also unclear, though. Is the second-generation kid whose parents were born in Mexico and who is steeped in [insert term here] culture but whose native language is NOT Spanish Hispanic? And if he isn't, does the word have any particular meaning?
I use "Latino/ Latina" because it seems to be what most people who are of that ethnicity prefer. Again, though, not homogeneous, so you'll see variety as to what term is preferred, too.
I know very few of my Hispanic friends, other than Mexican-Americans, who refer to themselves as Latinos but most of my friends are Cuban or South American.
Butrflynet wrote:mysteryman wrote:Quote:Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty
And thats what makes JFK different then most of the dems today, IMHO.
A majority of the dems today dont agree with this statement from JFK's speech.
Actually, I agree with Mysteryman. Democrats aren't the same as they were back in the days of JFK.
JFK's statement doesn't quite apply to the current world situation. However, the defense of liberty is a core Democratic belief.
Unfortunately the word "liberty" has a very different meaning to conservatives (and Republicans) than it does to the rest of us.
Locking people up in Guantanamo without due process is an example of the conservative "liberty"... as is wiretapping American citizens without a warrant.
I bet JFK would have endorsed Ron Paul were he alive today.
I loved him so then. I had just turned 22 in Nov, '63. At least one person has changed over the years.
Butrflynet wrote:Have you read Tom Hayden's endorsement of Obama's movement? I posted a link in the Obama thread. That's another endorsement that gives me concern, but I liked how he explained his reasons for his endorsement.
I'd never heard of Tom Hayden.. I liked the thing he wrote that you posted on the Obama thread, spoke to me too.
Who is he - I mean, what's troubling about him that causes you concern about his endorsement?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Hayden
For some, he has a lot of baggage from the anti-Vietnam War days and as one of the "Chicago Seven" from the riots in Chicago during the 1968 Democratic Convention, and any mention of him immediately brings the taunts about his ex-wife "Hanoi Jane." It will be another piece of ammo in the Republican arsenal if Obama wins the nomination.
I hope that his endorsement of Obama's movement is not a foreboding premonition of what led to and incited the 1968 Convention riots.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,332029107-124905,00.html
Quote:In his command of the US political stage over the past year, Barack Obama has inspired many a comparison to John F Kennedy. Both young senators brought a lofty message, an appealing young family and a movie-star aura to the presidential race. But the two men forged a less known link - before Obama was even born.
The bond began with Kenyan labour leader Tom Mboya, an advocate for African nationalism who helped his country gain independence in 1963. In the late 1950s, Mboya was seeking support for a scholarship program that would send Kenyan students to US colleges - similar to other exchanges the US backed in developing nations during the Cold War with the Soviet Union. Mboya appealed to the state department. When that trail went cold, he turned to then-senator Kennedy.
Kennedy, who chaired the senate subcommittee on Africa, arranged a $100,000 grant through his family's foundation to help Mboya keep the program running.
"It was not a matter in which we sought to be involved," Kennedy said in an August 1960 senate speech. "Nevertheless, Mr Mboya came to see us and asked for help, when none of the other foundations could give it, when the federal government had turned it down quite precisely. We felt something ought to be done."
One of the first students airlifted to America was Barack Obama Sr, who married a white Kansas native named Ann Dunham during his US studies. Their son, born in 1961 and named for his father, has only once mentioned his Kennedy connection on the campaign trail.
Quote:Many of the airlifted students worked their way up to elite universities in America before returning to help Kenya adjust to independence, and Obama Sr was no exception. He left the family to take a Harvard scholarship when the young Obama was only 2 years old, beginning the future presidential candidate's remarkable personal journey to Indonesia, New York and Chicago and Capitol Hill.
"Obama is hailed in Kenya as one of the great results of the airlift," said Cora Weiss, who led the US group that helped Mboya organise the airlift. At a recent reception for alumni of the program, she recalled, one Kenyan journalist made a rousing toast to the student exchange that produced "the next president of the United States". Thanks to a bizarre twist in the airlift saga, Kennedy ended up discussing his Obama connection much more openly than Obama mentions the late president's role in his life.
Much more detail of several other interesting connections in the article...
