roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 09:05 pm
CalamityJane wrote:
McCain is too old, way too old to run a country of this magnitude.
Of course the other candidates are no picnic either. It's a question of
who is the lessor evil.


Ain't that just the truth?
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 10:27 pm
Look up 'the keating five'. McCain in the oval office ..... Brrrrrrrrrrrrr!
0 Replies
 
hanno
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Mar, 2008 11:15 am
Now, I keep firing this post up, but I've never double posted on it and the situation just keeps improving.

realclearpolitics - aggregated polls

The set of running polls doesn't mean much in itself, but I do think it's a noodle-flung-at-the-wall way to vector in on common sentiment.

What it's telling me right now is - since McCain is beating Obama for the first time since January when he was still duking it out with Mr-Five-Grandmothers, is that Obama's spiritual adviser just handed it over to our lad McCain. I don't think 'damn America' really is what Obama's about, I think his reproach was sincere and probably toned down from what he would have liked to say, but one way or the other, it shows naivety to let yerself get sideswiped like that.

As I've said before, I didn't think naivety was a bad thing in Bush, going in to it. I didn't think it was as pathological as having some kind of servant-of-god-almighty complex either, which it certainly isn't with Obama, but one way or the other? Let's get us-selves a real hard-case in there!!!
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Mar, 2008 12:03 pm
I don't think Obama necessarily agrees with the hate-filled rhetoric of his pastor and mentor either.

He has said he was never in attendance when these controversial comments were made, however. If it's proven otherwise (and I think it probably will be) then that is going to be more than a bit problematic for him.

And you're right. If he's running on his 'superior judgment', he has made some rather naive (not to mention 'bone-headed') mistakes.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Mar, 2008 12:46 pm
Mr McCain odds have shortened from 6 to 4 to 5 to 4 in the last two days in London markets.

I'm on at 6 to 1 so guess who I'm rooting for.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Apr, 2008 08:04 pm
Think Bush was a hawk, who was a little all too comfortable with sending US soldiers to fight in wars that have neither a clear, specific goal, nor a clear path to getting there?

Just wait till you experience what a McCain presidency will be like. John McCain will make Bush look like a pragmatic, hell: near-pacifist moderate.

Quote:
Correcting John McCain

John McCain's latest big foreign policy speech was, bizarrely, reported as him positioning himself as more moderate than George W. Bush. Talking to rightwing radio, though, McCain is singing a different tune, emphasizing that "no one has supported President Bush on Iraq more than I have." He goes on to explain that "there are many national security issues that I have strongly supported the president and steadfastly so."

In some respects, though, McCain has been a less-than-steadfast supporter of Bush. He, for example, spent most of 1999 and 2000 criticizing Bush for being unwilling to adopt a doctrine of rogue state rollback. Back in 2002 while Bush was unwilling to publicly argue for invading Iraq, McCain was doing it. And while Bush was full of talk about disarmament, McCain was clear from the start that he would settle only for regime change.

McCain spent a lot of time criticizing Bush for not sending enough Americans over to Iraq [..], and has also been known to criticize Bush for insufficient saber-rattling directed at such countries as Iran, Syria, and Russia. So, really, it's not fair to say that McCain is just like Bush -- he's been a much more consistent proponent of the worst policies associated with the Bush administration.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Apr, 2008 08:08 pm
Re: McCain!
hanno wrote:
I'd love a Libertarian, although Ron Paul isn't selling it as well as he could, but as far as what may or might get elected? McCain!!!

Odd comparison, though. Arent McCain and Ron Paul diametrically opposed to each other on the war in Iraq and on foreign policy in general? Which is pretty much the only issue McCain really has his heart in anyway?

Thanks for this thread though. I was looking for a general, value-neutral thread about McCain -- i.e., one that wasnt about some specific individual story or issue, and wasnt titled "McCain, boo!" or the like. This one's the only recent one I could find.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Apr, 2008 11:28 pm
Just what exactly is there about being a P.O.W that qualifies anyone that survives their incarceration, to be President?
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2008 12:08 am
hanno wrote:
There's nothing to prove, they're here and more could be here if they wanted to, they just ain't doing too much except getting apprehended now and then. You got to know they had access to the joint in the Clinton administration something like 9/11 takes more'n 13 months to work out.

As for telling someone to 'STFU' in a forum - were you an only child? Parents, father at least over 35 perhaps?


no and no and mind your f*cking business.... how 'bout that?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2008 01:13 am
Flippantly singing the song "Bomb Iran" as an answer to foreign policy questions concerning that country is most definitely not presidential. This is not the individual the country, nor the world for that matter, needs at the controls of the world's only superpower military.

I shudder at the very thought.
0 Replies
 
hanno
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2008 07:49 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
hanno wrote:
There's nothing to prove, they're here and more could be here if they wanted to, they just ain't doing too much except getting apprehended now and then. You got to know they had access to the joint in the Clinton administration something like 9/11 takes more'n 13 months to work out.

As for telling someone to 'STFU' in a forum - were you an only child? Parents, father at least over 35 perhaps?


no and no and mind your f*cking business.... how 'bout that?


Come on, it's called a forum for a reason - if I'm wrong tell me I'm wrong. Did your folks own a Chrysler at some point? Biggish house perhaps - my nurturing-atmosphere detector has buried the needle...
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2008 08:38 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
I do not like green eggs and McCain
I would not like it with Pinky and the Brain
I do not like endless war fought in vain
I do not care for Republicans such as John McCain
Not in '08 not in '12
Let's put the guy on the shelf


I guess we can allow twelve and shelf as a very oblique oblique rhyme, but it's a bit tricky since it might be a perfect rhyme if one mispronounced shelf or made the "S" on the plural form silent. Hard to know the intent of the poet.

But "Pinky and the Brain?"

Surely you could have done something better with "brain" or something with

bane, cane, drain, feign, gain, main, pain, rain, stain, or sane.

Plus the metre really struggles.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 04:51 pm
The relief from day-today pain and evill is far far far away.

"bane, cane, drain, feign, gain, main, pain, rain, stain, or sane.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 06:15 pm
John McCain, a straight-talking believer of voodoo economics.

Quote:
STRAIGHT TALK.

I just saw Doug Holtz-Eakin lay out the John McCain economic agenda at an Urban Institute event. Needless to say, he didn't really answer any of these questions. But one bit footwork struck me as particularly impressive. Most estimates of McCain's tax agenda suggest that making permanent the tax cuts, adding two new corporate cuts, and repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax would cost around $2-$3 trillion over 10 years. He disagreed. McCain's tax plan, he said, will only add $20 or $30 billion to the deficit.

On first listen, I assumed Holtz-Eakin was just using wildly different numbers than everyone else. Not so. As I reconstructed my notes, here's the magic: First, Doug Holtz-Eakin lambasted the "fantasy baseline" that assumes the Bush tax cuts will end, as they're currently set to do. This knocks a couple trillion off the total, particularly if you assume that it also means the repeal of the Alternative Minimum Tax. Then he moves us to a year-by-year time frame, rather than the more traditional 10-year window. Then, he assumes this stuff will partially pay for itself down the line. Then he assumes some closed earmarks and eliminated waste. And so we end up with $20-$30 billion a year. The actual hole in the deficit doesn't change -- that's still in the trillions -- but the amount McCain takes responsibility for is now in the low billions.

That, my friends, is straight talk.

Posted by Ezra Klein on April 7, 2008
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 07:51 pm
Temper, temper!

John McCain appears to be as foulmouthed as, say, Rev. Wright... even just showing what he said on this forum will take some innovative typography.

Quote:
Book: McCain temper boiled over in '92 tirade, called wife a 'c*nt'

John McCain's temper is well documented. He's called opponents and colleagues "shitheads," "ass holes" and in at least one case "a f*cking jerk."

But a new book on the presumptive Republican nominee will air perhaps the most shocking angry exchange to date.

The Real McCain by Cliff Schecter, which will arrive in bookstores next month, reports an angry exchange between McCain and his wife that happened in full view of aides and reporters during a 1992 campaign stop. [..]

    Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c*nt." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 08:36 pm
nimh wrote:
Temper, temper!

John McCain appears to be as foulmouthed as, say, Rev. Wright... even just showing what he said on this forum will take some innovative typography.

Quote:
Book: McCain temper boiled over in '92 tirade, called wife a 'c*nt'

John McCain's temper is well documented. He's called opponents and colleagues "shitheads," "ass holes" and in at least one case "a f*cking jerk."

But a new book on the presumptive Republican nominee will air perhaps the most shocking angry exchange to date.

The Real McCain by Cliff Schecter, which will arrive in bookstores next month, reports an angry exchange between McCain and his wife that happened in full view of aides and reporters during a 1992 campaign stop. [..]

    Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c*nt." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days.



When we see a video of McCain making such a disgusting comment, as opposed to the assurances of annonymous sources, perhaps then we can draw comparisons between him and Wright.

This is typical of a silly sort of tit for tat advocacy that argues: "Yeah my guy was a real jerk but yours was a worse one!"

Sorry nimh, but I am just not going to take the word of a guy trying to make millions on a book who, on a second hand basis, cites anonymous sources. I doubt you would either if the tables were turned.

You seem to pride yourself in what amounts to nimhish objectivity and reason, and yet you repeat this tripe as if it were undisputed fact.

Even if it turns out to be entirely accurate, will that, in some way, excuse any and all of Obama's failings as respects the Rev Wright?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 09:40 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
This is typical of a silly sort of tit for tat advocacy that argues: "Yeah my guy was a real jerk but yours was a worse one!"

Well, except that "my guy" - Obama - was never quoted using this kind of foulmouthed language, which currently has rightwingers tut-tutting over Wright, himself at all. So if this is a silly tit for tat, it's more of a "Yeah OK, so a good friend of my guy turns out to be a real jerk, but your guy seems to be a big jerk himself!" kind of one.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Sorry nimh, but I am just not going to take the word of a guy trying to make millions on a book who, on a second hand basis, cites anonymous sources. I doubt you would either if the tables were turned.

Fair enough.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
You seem to pride yourself in what amounts to nimhish objectivity and reason, and yet you repeat this tripe as if it were undisputed fact.

Well, I wouldnt quite equate "John McCain appears to be" with "It is undisputed fact"; thats careless reading. But sure, yes, thin evidence. Count me hesitant about believing it until more similar stuff turns up.

Or rather, until I read up about more similar stuff from McCain, because apparently this outburst wasnt particularly out of character. But I havent really delved into this stuff myself yet, so I dunno.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Even if it turns out to be entirely accurate, will that, in some way, excuse any and all of Obama's failings as respects the Rev Wright?

Of course not. If it turns out to be entirely accurate, it would make me raise my eyebrows about whether you want a guy with such a violent, resentful temper as President.

The link with Wright, on the other hand, was just an admittedly flippant aside, directed at all the tut-tutting from conservatives here about the morally corrupting influence of Wright talking about "riding dirty" and making the accompanying hip shake. That kind of silliness seems nicely relativated with this story of your guy calling his wife a c*nt. But sure, that whole comparison is just an aside.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 07:27 am
John McCain is enough of a straight talker to posit the question:

Quote:
"Basically, which is it?" the man asked Mr. McCain. "Straight talk: Do you want to raise taxes, cut entitlement spending, cut defense spending, or have a deficit?"

But not enough of a straight talker to actually, like, answer it.

Quote:


Basically, he's opting for magic as answer: he will neither raise taxes, nor cut entitlement spending, nor cut defense spending, nor have a deficit - everybody can have everything! - because, well, supply siders magic will work its way:

Quote:
"When Ronald Reagan came to office,'' he said, noting that few in the audience were old enough to remember, "we had 10 percent unemployment, 20 percent interest rates, and 10 percent inflation, if I've got those numbers right. That was when Ronald Reagan came to office in 1980. And so what did we do? We didn't raise taxes, and we didn't cut entitlements. What we did was we cut taxes and we put in governmental reductions in regulations, stimulus to the economy, and by the way, Jack Kennedy also did that as well - and so my answer to it is a growing economy. And I think you best grow the economy by the most efficient use of the tax dollar.''

Mr. McCain - who has said that he wants to balance the budget while making the Bush tax cuts permanent, cutting additional taxes, and keeping troops in Iraq - said: "I believe we can grow this economy, and reduce this deficit.''

Of course, the whole notion that you can have it all depends on drinking the supply siders kool aid about how cutting taxes will actually increase government revenue.

While it's widely accepted that tax cuts stimulate the economy, the contention of some ideologues that they stimulate the economy so much that they actually yield a greater revenue than there would have been without tax cuts is a fairy tale, which was rejected even on the National Review. It just isnt taken seriously by economists outside, say, the Cato and Hoover Institutes. It may be true for some hypothetical economies with exorbitant tax rates, but definitely does not work that way for the US and its taxes.

But apparently McCain drunk the kool aid. To do so, of course, he needed to overlook some inconvenient facts about the Reagan presidency which he cites as the example he wants to follow:

Quote:
[McCain] approvingly cited the example of President Ronald Reagan. There was one thing he did not mention during his response: the deficit nearly tripled during the Reagan presidency, partly due to tax cuts and increases in military spending.


Source: The Caucus
0 Replies
 
Kitten with a Whip
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 08:37 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
nimh wrote:
Temper, temper!

John McCain appears to be as foulmouthed as, say, Rev. Wright... even just showing what he said on this forum will take some innovative typography.

Quote:
Book: McCain temper boiled over in '92 tirade, called wife a 'c*nt'

John McCain's temper is well documented. He's called opponents and colleagues "shitheads," "ass holes" and in at least one case "a f*cking jerk."

But a new book on the presumptive Republican nominee will air perhaps the most shocking angry exchange to date.

The Real McCain by Cliff Schecter, which will arrive in bookstores next month, reports an angry exchange between McCain and his wife that happened in full view of aides and reporters during a 1992 campaign stop. [..]

    Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c*nt." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days.



When we see a video of McCain making such a disgusting comment, as opposed to the assurances of annonymous sources, perhaps then we can draw comparisons between him and Wright.

This is typical of a silly sort of tit for tat advocacy that argues: "Yeah my guy was a real jerk but yours was a worse one!"

Sorry nimh, but I am just not going to take the word of a guy trying to make millions on a book who, on a second hand basis, cites anonymous sources. I doubt you would either if the tables were turned.

You seem to pride yourself in what amounts to nimhish objectivity and reason, and yet you repeat this tripe as if it were undisputed fact.

Even if it turns out to be entirely accurate, will that, in some way, excuse any and all of Obama's failings as respects the Rev Wright?



Obama doesn't have any failings in regards to Wright. He did exactly the right thng. He addressed the issue and he distanced himself but didn't throw his pastor under the bus. McCain's tirades are legendary(and yes MR Buzz there is video) and weoll-documented and your denial of the facts tell me you are one of those right wngers who live in the non-reality based universe.

It is also laughable that you bring out the worn out "oh they are just printing lies to sell books" canard yet you criticize the "what your guy did is worse than what my guy did" defense while failing to recognize that it doesn't remotely apply in this situation as the McCain flap applies directly to the candidate not an acquaintance.

I applaud MCCain's service as I applaud all who have served but that doesn't qualify him to be the decider. I don't know what his malady is, there are rumors of PTSD, etc. (I grant you only rumors but McCain won't release his records.) Because the fella is nice to the press and feed them barbeque and seems to prefer lash out at women (Bumiller and Cindy), the clown is getting a free pass from the mainstream media.

After Obama is the nominee, I am confident the press will start doing their job and get McCain to answer questions about his obvious impairments.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 08:49 am
hanno wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
hanno wrote:
There's nothing to prove, they're here and more could be here if they wanted to, they just ain't doing too much except getting apprehended now and then. You got to know they had access to the joint in the Clinton administration something like 9/11 takes more'n 13 months to work out.

As for telling someone to 'STFU' in a forum - were you an only child? Parents, father at least over 35 perhaps?


no and no and mind your f*cking business.... how 'bout that?


Come on, it's called a forum for a reason - if I'm wrong tell me I'm wrong. Did your folks own a Chrysler at some point? Biggish house perhaps - my nurturing-atmosphere detector has buried the needle...


my mum and I were so poor I scrounged pop bottles to raise money for a pot pie or I went without dinner... I didn't own a car until I was 19 and my mum never owned one.... so... no.... I was not nurtured... nice try though...
0 Replies
 
 

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