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How Bush’s Fiscal Mismanagement Produced a Recession

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 11:54 am
So, are we using the DOW to give us an accurate analysis of the state of our economy? Damn, I get dumber by the minute.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 12:00 pm
No, Dys, we're not using the Dow to get economic statistics; I just questioned a statement made earlier on this page by BBB ref "stock market" doing allegedly better under Democratic administrations than Republican ones - for the record, that statement is patently false as chart I posted demonstrates.

Anyway, here is a link for the chart I just posted itself, if you like to change dates, log scale, or other particulars on it:

http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/charter.exe/djind/day-djiac+1887+2008+9+1+0+290+545++0
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 05:41 pm
Dys and anyone else interested in economic analysis: this is an excellent summary of an article published earlier this month:

Quote:
Section: Finance and economics

Economics focus

What do earlier banking crises reveal about America's travails today?

A dash of otherworldliness is part of the charm of academic conferences. But this year's annual meeting of the American Economic Association (AEA) in New Orleans afforded little shelter. Reality gatecrashed the very first morning of the three-day meeting, the world's largest convention of dismal scientists, with the release of a report on January 4th showing that America's unemployment rate had spiked from 4.7% to 5% in December. The bad news made a presentation by Kenneth Rogoff, a professor at Harvard University, on the final day all the more timely. His paper*, written with Carmen Reinhart of the University of Maryland and part of a larger historical study, sets out some parallels between America's subprime mess and 18 previous banking crises in the rich world. For an audience recovering from a Saturday night on Bourbon Street, the conclusions were aptly sobering.

The authors show that, although details may vary, banking crises follow the same broad script. Each blow-up is preceded by rising home and equity prices; an acceleration in capital inflows driven by optimistic foreign investors; a rapid build-up of debt; and--immediately before the storm hits--an inverted V-shaped path for the economy, with growth first picking up and then faltering. The years just before the start of the subprime meltdown fit the Reinhart-Rogoff template remarkably well. Indeed on most criteria, the portents of trouble were more marked than in past crises. House prices rose more sharply in real terms. Equity-market gains were more persistent. Capital inflows picked up too, though they were already running at an alarmingly high level. America's current-account deficit was much larger, relative to GDP, than in a typical crisis candidate.

Given such ominous indications, what of the aftermath? Mr Rogoff was careful to say that the malign effects of the subprime mess might not be as great as those of previous crises. A great deal of uncertainty remains, not least about the scale of lending losses. Yet the precedents are worrying. In the 18 earlier crises, the average drop in output growth was two percentage points and it took two years for growth to return to normal. For the five worst crises, growth rates tumbled by five percentage points from their peak and recovery took more than three years. If America avoids a material slowdown, say the authors, "it should either be considered very lucky or even more 'special' than most optimistic theories suggest."

Financial-market lore has it that uttering "this time is different" is the easiest way to get laughed off a trading floor. When recession beckons, the statement invites still more ridicule. At the AEA conference, it fell to Alan Taylor of the University of California to make the case (in the spirit of debate as much as from heartfelt advocacy) that things might not turn out quite as badly as the Reinhart-Rogoff analysis suggests.

A crucial factor is the cost of the final bill. The average rich-world banking crisis in the Reinhart-Rogoff sample leads to recession. But this result is driven by the "big five" blow-ups (among them the implosion of Japan's banking system in the 1990s). Mr Taylor notes that the other 13 had little discernible effect on the wider economy. If all of America's subprime borrowers defaulted and only half of the $1.3 trillion lent to them was recovered, the losses of $650 billion would amount to around 5% of GDP--on a par with the smallest of the big five crises. If losses turned out to be lower, as most estimates suggest, America would probably get off lightly.
A problem shared

Another reason to be cheerful is that the subprime crisis does not strictly correspond to previous banking crises, where losses were concentrated on banks at the heart of the payments and lending systems. Although the banks are more exposed to losses than at first seemed likely, many distressed creditors are either overseas banks or hedge funds. That has costs of its own, not least damaging uncertainty about where exactly the subprime bodies are buried. But the scattering of losses outside America should export some of the economic harm.

And, of course, the Federal Reserve may yet save the day. Mr Taylor finds evidence from the paper's sample of crises to suggest that a swift policy response helps to limit the economic fall-out. In the worst cases, the average levels of interest rates were broadly the same in the years after the initial trauma as they had been before it. In countries that experienced only limited economic damage, policy rates were kept materially lower after the crisis struck.

These arguments offer hope that the worst effects of the subprime disaster may yet be contained. But the scale and scope of America's housing boom-and-bust suggest that problems will not be restricted to subprime lending. Falling house prices threaten the solvency of plenty of prime borrowers too. Many more mortgagees will be hurt by lost housing equity. The credit-market malaise is also likely to lift default rates in the corporate sector, causing additional bank losses.

And although the export of subprime exposure has helped preserve the capital of American banks, it has rocked banks abroad. The results are unlikely to be pretty. Mr Rogoff sought to stay close to home, as he was addressing the AEA. But, in an aside, he noted that some European countries--Spain, Britain and Ireland--fit just as snugly into the template of asset boom, indebtedness, capital inflows and economic woes to come. Given the reach of the housing boom and financial derivatives, he might also have noted that a pessimist would find it just as easy as an optimist to say that this time things are different.

* Is the 2007 Sub-Prime Financial Crisis So Different? An International Historical Comparison by Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff


Copyright of The Economist © 2008
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

... and for anyone who didn't notice, the above is the official summary of the pretentious fluff posted right at the very start of this thread, quoting some German article, as quoted in Harper's magazine - so much for reading comprehension around here Smile
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2008 08:27 am
High Seas wrote:
Please read what you link before posting....... Your very first link makes it plain that
".............Using data for the period 1871 to 1997, we find that the stock returns are almost identical under Democratic and Republican administrations. .............. the returns have not been statistically different when Democrats or Republicans occupy the White House."


http://www.economagic.com/gif/g65088088015511393336433306316614.gif


That's the series. Final Smile


From the same link:
Quote:
The data for the period [1945-1997] provide stronger evidence that the returns are on average the same under the administration of both parties. For Republicans, the average annual return is 13.1 percent and for Democratic administrations it is 15.3 percent.


This would be a better analysis, IMO, since the Dixicrats left the Democratic party in 1948.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2008 08:52 am
Job numbers today show a decrease in jobs.

All the signs are there that this is a recession. We just won't know until the men in the suits do their final tally. But the Fed didn't cut it's rate by 125 basis points in a week because of the possibility of a slow down. They see the numbers.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2008 09:26 am
parados wrote:
Job numbers today show a decrease in jobs.

All the signs are there that this is a recession. We just won't know until the men in the suits do their final tally. But the Fed didn't cut it's rate by 125 basis points in a week because of the possibility of a slow down. They see the numbers.


Quote:
Government data released Friday is forecast to show the nation's unemployment rate dipped slightly in January after surging to its highest level in two years last month.

Wall Street economists surveyed by Thomson/IFR predict the unemployment rate fell to 4.9 percent in January from 5 percent a month earlier, and that payrolls grew by 58,000, compared with meager 18,000 bump in December.

half full or half empty? BTW I do believe the FED cut it rates by 125 because of a possibility of a slow down.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2008 09:41 am
If the FED is willing to forgo any attempt to keep inflation in check just because of the possibility of a slow down then we have bigger problems in a FED that makes large rate cuts without hard data.

Quote:
U.S. employers cut 17,000 non-farm jobs in January, the first time in nearly 4-1/2 years that U.S. payrolls shrank as continuing losses in construction and manufacturing reflected the economy's waning momentum.
source
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2008 10:09 am
HighSeas
High Seas wrote:
Please read what you link before posting....... Your very first link makes it plain that
".............Using data for the period 1871 to 1997, we find that the stock returns are almost identical under Democratic and Republican administrations. .............. the returns have not been statistically different when Democrats or Republicans occupy the White House."
http://www.economagic.com/gif/g65088088015511393336433306316614.gif
That's the series. Final Smile


My second post example, by a Federal Reserve bank, in 1998 examines the effect of political party control impact on the U.S. economy. Did you read it?

http://www.frbsf.org/econrsrch/wklyltr/wklyltr98/el98-19.html

BBB
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2008 03:05 pm
Re: HighSeas
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
High Seas wrote:
Please read what you link before posting....... Your very first link makes it plain that
".............Using data for the period 1871 to 1997, we find that the stock returns are almost identical under Democratic and Republican administrations. .............. the returns have not been statistically different when Democrats or Republicans occupy the White House."
http://www.economagic.com/gif/g65088088015511393336433306316614.gif
That's the series. Final Smile


My second post example, by a Federal Reserve bank, in 1998 examines the effect of political party control impact on the U.S. economy. Did you read it?

http://www.frbsf.org/econrsrch/wklyltr/wklyltr98/el98-19.html

BBB


BBB - perhaps someone would explain to you why your posts are mistaken in every particular. The list of errors and misunderstandings is too lengthy to list here, so I'll just mention the one above:

You ask me whether I read an article you linked while simultaneously responding to my post where I quote from the exact same article!!! Your difficulties with reading comprehension seem beyond my powers of explanation. However, I'll make one last effort: read, please, the complete article you just link above and especially the SECOND PARAGRAPH. In case you can't locate the 2nd paragraph, here it is:

Quote:
This Economic Letter examines the evidence related to stock market performance when Democratic and Republican candidates occupy the White House. Using data for the period 1871 to 1997, we find that the stock returns are almost identical under Democratic and Republican administrations. The Democrats have a slight edge in the pre-World War II period as a result of the effect of the 1929 crash and the subsequent recovery. However, since 1945, the returns have not been statistically different when Democrats or Republicans occupy the White House. These findings generally confirm earlier studies for different time periods and stock market indexes, although recent strong stock market performance gives Democrats a slight edge (though it is not statistically significant) in the postwar period.


Please read this carefully and see where the sentences you took from my post came from this paragraph! Thank you.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:43 am
Quote:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080204/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_budget



The reason why some people think we are in a recession and some people don't is because the rich are getting richer and the middle class and the poor are getting poorer. We protect the tax cuts which only benifit the the very top rich but cut medicaid services which affects even disabled children at at schools. If we cut out the remburshing medicaid services for the disabled at schools; states are going to have to raise their taxes which affect the poor and middle class both the most. Energy prices are at record levels; we have to spend all our money on gas and heating our houses, how in the world are we going to spend the pitiful rebate to spur the economy? There is just so many ways this administration has stripped the middle class and the poor of a decent economic life; but at least the stock brokers are thriving; some days at least.
0 Replies
 
 

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