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Obama reached out and said positive things about Reagan. Nothing wrong with that... he seems to be presenting even more now as an inclusive candidate... I guess one could say "A uniter, not a divider".

Sound familiar? How'd that work out this last time?

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Yeah, but at least he's not a talking chimp.

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no argument there...

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Which candidate do you support Bear?

I have read all of your posts... but I just can't figure it out.

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I will vote for whoever the democrats put up.

In a perfect world, I liked Joe Biden.

Because it's not a perfect world. I support Hillary whole heartedly.

Obama presents well but something about him does not ring true to me, and I don't think he's ready, nor do I think we've seen the real Obama yet.

He's also turning out to be as polarizing as Hillary is accused of, and we don't need another polarizing figure in the White House.

If Obama is so easily led in directions the big bad clinton machine choose to steer him, which is exactly what's happening... then deviant and savvy world leaders who have Americas worst interests at heart will eat him alive.

We need principled leadership with toughness and ruthlessness if necessary sprinkled on top, and that I haven't seen from Obama at all.

Having said that, if he gets the nomination I will vote for him and support him and hope for the best.

You may all make your expected comments about how principled and Hillary should not be mentioned in the same sentence. I believe that will be the predictable response. :wink:

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If Obama's going to make it through debates with a Republican candidate, someone has got to work with him on his game face. The peevish thing does not work to his advantage.

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ehBeth wrote:

If Obama's going to make it through debates with a Republican candidate, someone has got to work with him on his game face. The peevish thing does not work to his advantage.

and it is a glimpse behind his public face... I do not believe Obama will well tolerate deviance from his core beliefs. Sound familiar?

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No Bear.... I think she lacks toughness (and I am not saying that she ruthlessness).

She doesn't seem have the toughness to take a controversial stand... not against the war, not in defense of illegal people, not against illegal people, not against torture, not in favor of being openly gay in the military.

It angers me that she gets the liberal label, being a liberal takes a "toughness" that she hasn't displayed at all.

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I respect your opinion always ebrown... but I totally disagree.... I think she's remarkably tough... and I've seen her take a stand....

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An interesting perspective, ebrown. I'll have to keep an eye out for that.

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I'm with ebrown. I used to not support her because I think she's a hawk. Now I think she's a liar and a hawk. As far as drawing parallels between a candidate and Bush -- I think Bush has governed the way he campaigned, and he campaigned like someone else I know.

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FreeDuck wrote:

I'm with ebrown. I used to not support her because I think she's a hawk. Now I think she's a liar and a hawk. As far as drawing parallels between a candidate and Bush -- I think Bush has governed the way he campaigned, and he campaigned like someone else I know.

So I guess you'll be voting for McCain?

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ebrown_p wrote:

It angers me that she gets the liberal label, being a liberal takes a "toughness" that she hasn't displayed at all.

Huh?

I'm not sure I've ever heard the, "it takes a 'toughness' to be a liberal" angle before.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
I'm with ebrown. I used to not support her because I think she's a hawk. Now I think she's a liar and a hawk. As far as drawing parallels between a candidate and Bush -- I think Bush has governed the way he campaigned, and he campaigned like someone else I know.

So I guess you'll be voting for McCain?

That depends on who the nominees are and whether there's a third choice.

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Ticomaya wrote:

ebrown_p wrote:
It angers me that she gets the liberal label, being a liberal takes a "toughness" that she hasn't displayed at all.

Huh?

I'm not sure I've ever heard the, "it takes a 'toughness' to be a liberal" angle before.

Have you ever tried to be a liberal, Tico?

Yeah, I thought so.

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ebrown_p wrote:

Have you ever tried to be a liberal, Tico?

Yeah, I thought so.

No.

Do you think that's because I lack the "toughness" required?

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Ticomaya wrote:

ebrown_p wrote:
Have you ever tried to be a liberal, Tico?

Yeah, I thought so.

No.

Do you think that's because I lack the "toughness" required?

It could be toughness, or it could be intelligence. It's hard to tell since we have never met.

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ebrown_p wrote:

No Bear.... I think she lacks toughness (and I am not saying that she ruthlessness).

She doesn't seem have the toughness to take a controversial stand... not against the war, not in defense of illegal people, not against illegal people, not against torture, not in favor of being openly gay in the military.

It angers me that she gets the liberal label, being a liberal takes a "toughness" that she hasn't displayed at all.

I see her as a Liberal who is forcing herself more toward the middle in order to be elected-- the woman is ruthless. But, I've never associated liberalism with toughness. I also think Liberals are intolerant, impatient with anyone who doesn't agree with them.

I think of liberals being anti-war, raising taxes to help those more in need, etc.

Sure there's an inherent toughness involved in being a politician, but the hardliners have always seemed the Republicans.

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I get ebrown's point about toughness, and where Hillary lacks it. The Iraq vote is the most obvious example of that. It would've been much tougher at the time to vote "no" than to vote "yes." One of my earlier "uh-oh, maybe I don't want Hillary to be the nominee after all" thoughts was when I found out she didn't even read the intelligence thingie provided to Senators, despite much urging from a fellow-Democrat (was that Durbin?)

That says a few things to me, including. A) She's not really so detail-oriented and wonkish as her reputation, or at least isn't always, and here is a place where it would have really counted; B) the details were not what she based her vote on; which means that C) her decision was probably ultimately political. Looking long-term at her presidential aspirations, especially.

Not tough.

Obama's opposition would have been tougher if he'd actually been in the U.S. Senate at the time, but it was still pretty tough as someone who was already thinking about running for the U.S. Senate and who had been plotting a bid for the White House since kindergarten... ;-)

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Hillary will win the nomination facing as much hatred from you people as george bush... Laughing

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