Democracy and Freedom

Jim wrote:

But just because their legal system is different from the American legal system does not automatically invalidate it.

It does if you value freedom.

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I do not want to see the entire world become homogeneous. It's a little depressing for me travelling around the United States seeing the same strip malls with the same stores everywhere I go. I do not want to see the same "McWorld" commercialism everywhere on Earth, and I do not see the need for the exact, identical forms of representative government everywhere on Earth.

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I do.

To not do conjures up scenes from Kenya and Rawanda with which to allow our concerned citizens to think themselves saints merely by being appalled and thus being almost canonised.

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I'm really sorry when I hear about atrocities in Africa. But I'm even more sorry when I see pictures of dead American servicemen being dragged through the streets in places like Somalia.

As I see it, there are two choices. Either the U.S. goes in alone, and then we risk having more Iraqs, or we wait for the UN to decide to do something, which will never happen.

I do not belive the US has the moral right, the number of soldiers, or the wealth to right every wrong in the world.

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flaga wrote-

Quote:

It does if you value freedom.

Does that mean that you don't accept the argument above that there's no such thing as freedom in a society?

Are you saying that there is no social contract in the US?

The French seem to me, and I'm only judging from newspapers and TV, to be more free than Americans.

Ultimate freedom is ultimate loneliness.

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Jim wrote-

Quote:

I'm really sorry when I hear about atrocities in Africa. But I'm even more sorry when I see pictures of dead American servicemen being dragged through the streets in places like Somalia.

And so say all of us I'm sure. But doesn't your statement imply that you are a racist?

Quote:

I do not belive the US has the moral right, the number of soldiers, or the wealth to right every wrong in the world.

I think the US, plus its allies, have not only a moral right but an obligation to try to right the wrongs of the world and bring everyone the boring "same strip malls with the same stores". It is being done I think. But it's a long job.

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spendius wrote:

flaga wrote-

Quote:
It does if you value freedom.

Does that mean that you don't accept the argument above that there's no such thing as freedom in a society?

This depends on how much freedom for individual action society is willing to accept. Common law due process rights are a key to Anglo-American freedom. In France someone could easily be railroaded by the legal system.

Quote:

Are you saying that there is no social contract in the US?

The U.S. Constitution, which recognizes common law due process, is our social contract.

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The French seem to me, and I'm only judging from newspapers and TV, to be more free than Americans.

How so?

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spendius wrote:

Jim wrote-

Quote:
I'm really sorry when I hear about atrocities in Africa. But I'm even more sorry when I see pictures of dead American servicemen being dragged through the streets in places like Somalia.

And so say all of us I'm sure. But doesn't your statement imply that you are a racist?

Quote:
I do not belive the US has the moral right, the number of soldiers, or the wealth to right every wrong in the world.

I think the US, plus its allies, have not only a moral right but an obligation to try to right the wrongs of the world and bring everyone the boring "same strip malls with the same stores". It is being done I think. But it's a long job.

I am definitely in favor of the U.S. having a pro-active foreign policy, although we cannot afford to do everything that needs to be done in the world. But strip malls? Are you insane?

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flaja wrote:

spendius wrote:
Jim wrote-

Quote:
I'm really sorry when I hear about atrocities in Africa. But I'm even more sorry when I see pictures of dead American servicemen being dragged through the streets in places like Somalia.

And so say all of us I'm sure. But doesn't your statement imply that you are a racist?

Quote:
I do not belive the US has the moral right, the number of soldiers, or the wealth to right every wrong in the world.

I think the US, plus its allies, have not only a moral right but an obligation to try to right the wrongs of the world and bring everyone the boring "same strip malls with the same stores". It is being done I think. But it's a long job.

I am definitely in favor of the U.S. having a pro-active foreign policy, although we cannot afford to do everything that needs to be done in the world. But strip malls? Are you insane?

My friends Flaja and Spendius - I do not believe I am a racist when I value the lives of my countrymen above the lives of people of other nations. I even value the lives of Black American servicemen above the lives of white Bosnians. Does this mean I hate white people?

As for the issue of my sanity, I fully admit that I do not want to see a homogeneous world. I do not want to see American commercialism on every square inch of the world. I do not particularly want to see the exact same form of government and legal system everywhere on earth. I do not care if there is the same religion practised identically everywhere in the world. If this makes me insane, then I must be as crazy as a loon.

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We're all a bit crazy Jim.

Surely every life has equal value.

flaga- I don't much care for strip malls myself nor a homogeneous world but it is much better than having no clean water and medical care and an infant mortality rate which we ought to be ashamed of and which detracts from the full enjoyment of our luxurious lifestyles.

Democracy and Freedom

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