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Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:08 am
Hmm. If I may, I would like to ask an interesting question. I'm going to start off with a lot of boring stuff before it gets mildly interesting, so I apologise for that, but if anyone wants to read the whole thing and answer me, then please do!
PQ xxxxxx
Background:
I'm 19, he's 20. I had a relationship before but he didn't. We had a great 2 years, he had a car and we basically drove around the whole of the south of england camping kayaking etc. We had a really amazing time. I went to uni in September, and it was quite tough because we loved each other, when you've had a relationship which has been so full on (seeing each other almost every weekend, to do something good) it was hard to adjust. Him coming to see me in London didn't really work because it was to intense and didn't really compare to what we had had before, plus he's a country bumpkin and London scared the **** out of him.
He's an outdoor instructor, but working as a labourer at the moment, which he hates. He has a lot to do, got to get more qualifications, get more instructing practise, etc. However when I was at uni he didn't do any of this, just sat at home wondering what i was up to, becoming paranoid and neglecting himself.
I tried to help him with this, I really did. I spent hours of my time saying 'why don't you do this?' etc, but no go. If anything this actually made it worse, because aswell as to ring me up because he missed me, he rang me to help sort his life, and became dependent on me.
I've been in London and been having a great time, loads t do etc. Eventually we started arguing a lot because I was going out (as a student should!) and have used a few drugs, which he hated, and he just became all upset and cried all the time, blah blah....
I found it hard too. I'm not the most strong person emotionally, although I try, and when I was around him I was a lot more unhappy because of all the pressures of being with him, and all the issues we had.
Oh and one other thing. Once, when had gone out with him for 4 months and he was in france, I kissed someone when I was off my face. I know it was wrong, but it was the only time I've ever done it, and I was honestly very sorry. I think it upset him more than I realised at the time.
So eventually, after a lot of talking about it, we said to each other on the 30th that we would have to split up before I went back to uni on the 7th. We were both really upset, although (I thought) we both knew it was for the best.
Anyway, on New Yeas Eve we decided to go to a party together anyway, after all we still got on as friends and were still going out, and didn't want to miss out on what we had organised with our friends. However it went WAY wrong.
Let me just say this before anyone judges- my boyfriend was the most loving person, a real gentle giant, didn't drink, take drugs, anything. He had never hit me EVER, or anyone else that I knew, it came completely out the blue.
At the party he drank a lot of wine, a little bottle of vodka and 2 beers.
At about 1 in the morning I went out of the party to look for some chips. He and a friend came with me, and unexpectedly on the way home from the chip shop, he threw me into the middle of a main road when a car was coming. I scrambled to get back on the pavement, and tucked all my arms and legs in on the curb so they wouldn't get run over. I started hysterically crying and a friend helped me back in the house. When we were in the house (my memory is fuzzy as I was drunk to) he sang a song about me being a whore, and kicked me as I cried on the floor, I stormed out of the room, at which point every friend I had at that party had a go at him. I listened from outside the door, and he said a load of stuff to them 'You don't know what It's like going out with her, she's a drug addict, she's a whore.' and a load of other lies.
After everyone had put him straight he tried to get his keys to drive home. We hid them, but he wouldn't have it. He went outside and then came back and started banging on the doors for his keys. Stupidly, I went outside to talk to him, and he had the worst go at me I've ever had in my life. He basically told me I was scum, he was better than me, I was a whore, how upset he was was all my fault and that he wanted his life back. He focused on the time I had kissed someone, 1 and a half years ago, and told me I was a slag, etc.
I tried to get back in the house, but he wouldn't let me, he told me he hated me, pushed me into some bins and punched me in the back. In self defence I scratched him, and managed to get in the house. I rang his parents, not knowing what else to do, and spoke to them. Eventually we got him to speak to them so they could calm him down, and he denied he had done anything to me, but told them I had scratched him on the face.
Well, obviously it's over now. I'm young at should be having fun, and so should he. He was really sorry in the moring and really uspet. I stupidly, drove back with him the next day, and because he wanted me to, I went to a new years day meal at his house. Whilst I was there I was talking to his dad, and his dad was telling me how my boyfriend had lots of offers to do things, and he had no clue that his son had been so unhappy.
My ex-boyfriend is very under-confident. I think that although he has the skill, he hasn't attempted to further himself because he is afraid of failure. He is very heavilly dyslexic and has basically spent his whole school life feeling worthless.
Now, what I want to ask is:
Was what he did on New Years Eve a result of all his sub-concious thought surfacing?
What I think happened was that he hates himself for being so underconfident- it stops him from making friends, getting the career he wants. Somehow, I've become the root of all this, namely because I am confident, determined and 'always come out of the **** smelling of roses.' Has he taken all of his self-hatred and put it on me? Maybe by blaming me he can deny responsibilty? He focused on the incident I kissed someone, the only time I betrayed him, and it must have really hurt him, a complete knock to his confidence. He once said to me that he often dreamed that I was having an affair, he would walk in the room and I would be shagging someone else, and in a way it turned him on. He's confused about it. He has constant nightmares and is vagualy afraid of the dark.
Although I did not cheat on him at all whislt at university, the idea of me taking drugs (a total of 4 times) played havock with his imagination.
I can understand that. Maybe I shouldn't have done it if I knew he didn't like it.
I know a great deal of this has been my fault, and boils down to the incident where I betrayed him. Thats understandable.
I just want to know- is my psycoanalysis right?
In that case, I could never go out with somone who deeply hates me. He loves me and hates me, and hates himself.
I said that if he ever got out of his depression and became genuinely better then we would have a chance, for we had an amazing relationship on each level right until the end, and I really miss it. He said he needs me to get rid of his depression. Thats bollocks, he can't get over me by going out with me.
He's not emotionally mature enough to be able to think objectively about himself I don't think, so is it a good idea to tell him of my suspicions? Would it do any good? I don't think he'd understand.
Have I even got a right to make such presumptions about his deepest feelings? Should I stop trying to anylise him altogether?
I've never broken up with anyone before, and I don't really know the best way to go about it. I suppose I should just leave him alone.
Thanks, PQ xxxxxxxxx
P.s sorry about the spellings.
Let it go. The rest of his life is now HIS responsibility.
Some observations - take them or leave them . . .
1) Never try to psychoanalyze events when people are under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. Some people can't drink, and your boyfriend seems to be one of these kind of people whose personality really changes when using. Your recall of events may not be accurate, either.
2) Your friend is out of his element. He is NOT a city person, you seem to be. How would you like to be placed in the middle of the woods and ordered to "be happy"? He needs to find his place. Send him home. He needs to be somewhere safe where he can mature.
3) You think using drugs and drinking is normal, in fact, you claim to have a right to it, but don't seem to understand the consequences. You need to be careful of your own behavior. How about not using for a while? Can you find friends who don't use? Re-read your post. You, also, were out of control during this entire event.
4) How about seeing each other less. He should go home and develop a career (no, he's NOT a uni person) and you need to buckle down and get your education. Get together in a neutral place. See if this all works out, or it needs to be put into the past.
If I were to guess, I would think there are deeper problems than you kissing a guy or dumping him. There is no reason for you to analyze him, but it seems he could use some professional help.
You are 19 - you have little in common with this man. It seems you know the answer - you need to dump him. Just say what he already knows. You two are different now and have different interests, it would be best if you parted ways.
He's an insecure prick who can't handle a woman with her own life, because he knows he's a loser without one of his own.
Hopefully you never have any contact with him again.
SULLYFISH66 wrote:Some observations - take them or leave them . . .
1) Never try to psychoanalyze events when people are under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. Some people can't drink, and your boyfriend seems to be one of these kind of people whose personality really changes when using. Your recall of events may not be accurate, either.
2) Your friend is out of his element. He is NOT a city person, you seem to be. How would you like to be placed in the middle of the woods and ordered to "be happy"? He needs to find his place. Send him home. He needs to be somewhere safe where he can mature.
3) You think using drugs and drinking is normal, in fact, you claim to have a right to it, but don't seem to understand the consequences. You need to be careful of your own behavior. How about not using for a while? Can you find friends who don't use? Re-read your post. You, also, were out of control during this entire event.
4) How about seeing each other less. He should go home and develop a career (no, he's NOT a uni person) and you need to buckle down and get your education. Get together in a neutral place. See if this all works out, or it needs to be put into the past.
I'm not rejecting your advice sully, I just am a bit worried I have worded my post wrong and people are going to misunderstand.
He only saw me 3 times in the whole time that I have been at university. We hardly saw each other for three months, and personally, if I see him any less than that I don't really see the point of having a relationship at all. Especailly at this age.
In regard to statement 1- thats the point I'm asking. Is what people do when they're drunk not valid? I think it's sometimes even more valid.
I don't think being drunk is an excuse. If you act out badly and violently when you drink, you shouldn't drink. You are still responsible for your actions.
PQ--
You say that his father admitted that he didn't realize his son was so unhappy.
This guy tried to kill you. Whatever his deep inner motivation, no matter how much he drank, he tried to kill you.
Give him plenty of room and time to get himself straightened out. You can't help him right now. Don't hurt him by giving him any reason to pretend that everything is hunky-dory. His life is not hunky-dory. He needs help. You are not this help.
YOU SAID:
"We had a great 2 years, he had a car and we basically drove around the whole of the south of england camping kayaking etc. We had a really amazing time."
Oh right. well it was only in the holidays and on weekends. I was at college. Anyway never mind!
Pentacle,
Anyone who throws you in front of a moving car doesn't deserve to have any excuses made for him. He is sick. Precisely how he is sick is most definitely not your problem to diagnose. Each time you go against your better judgment and visit him, you run into more unpleasantness. You could very easily run, again, into serious danger.
Sure, it's very sad to discover that someone you've had good times with is unwell, but he is truly dangerous, and the kind of help he needs is of the kind and degree that comes from a professional. I am hoping he does get assistance--and that no one else's life is threatened.
Please do not see or talk to this fellow again. Enjoy the people at university who enjoy a good time and treat you consistently well.
All best wishes.
Hi Pentacle Queen,
I've long held the theory that people are who they really are when they are drunk. I've personally never seen anything that would suggest this is wrong, but it is still only that - just a theory of mine.
In relation to his 'need' for you - (this may or may not be relevant in your eyes, so it is just something to think about) - when I was young, I had very romantic ideas about how to treat girls in relationships...I loved making girls happy...but how I carried it out contained a downside - it got me in trouble - that I put their happiness and needs above the my own needs. It was only after I realised that doing so showed a lack of respect to myself, that it dragged down my self esteem (and therefore rendered me incapable of fully & properly loving a girlfriend) that I understood doing so is rather bad for any relationship.
In relation to him pushing you out onto the road. I too consider it attempted murder. He may well be the nicest guy in the world, but can it be denied that there was a part of him that wanted to do this?
In relation to telling him your conclusions about his psychologocial pain - Is there a need? Would it benefit him? What is best for you?
In relation to any advice provided to you on these boards (mine included) - I would pay attention to them only so far as they may broaden your perspective - your conclusion is what matters.
"I've long held the theory that people are who they really are when they are drunk"
Pleeeeese!!
It's a mood-altering, mind-altering DRUG. Reduces inhibitions, clouds judgements, exacerbates impulsivity.
The guy CAN"T drink. Gets nuts when he does. There are many people like that - termed alcoholics.
He's darn lucky he didn't kill her. But there is no way he really meant to, and probably no court would convict him, under the influence, as he was.
She needs to know this. Especially if she wants to continue her partying.
Quote:I've long held the theory that people are who they really are when they are drunk"
It's a mood-altering, mind-altering DRUG. Reduces inhibitions, clouds judgements, exacerbates impulsivity.
Hello Sully, I came to that conclusion, and in 2 decades of meeting / watching drunks, I've seen nothing to change that theory. It is only a theory of mine, and you are welcome to disagree with it.
Quote:The guy CAN"T drink. Gets nuts when he does. There are many people like that - termed alcoholics.
I've met happy drunks, nasty drunks (who weren't alcoholics), sad drunks etc (most were happy drunks). Your point that angry drunks are alcoholics is erroneous, though they of course
may be.
Quote:He's darn lucky he didn't kill her. But there is no way he really meant to, and probably no court would convict him, under the influence, as he was.
Where I live, the State codified that being drunk (having gotten yourself drunk) is no excuse. Here, if the evidence could convince a jury, he would be convicted.
I've personally little doubt that he did mean to, but that sober, he wouldn't have done so.
Lastly, as I said, there is no need to pay attention to my, or anyone else advice.
Quote:
just sat at home wondering what i was up to, becoming paranoid and neglecting himself
he rang me to help sort his life, and became dependent on me
and he just became all upset and cried all the time
Whilst I was there I was talking to his dad, and his dad was telling me how my boyfriend had lots of offers to do things, and he had no clue that his son had been so unhappy.
He's obviously capable of hiding emotional pain from people. Hiding means repressing.
Quote:and unexpectedly on the way home from the chip shop, he threw me into the middle of a main road when a car was coming.
So where did the anger come from? The anger towards you appears to me to be consistent with someone who's life has gone off kilter (withdrawal, self neglect, victim view etc) at about the same time significant events in his life happened involving yourself (so there's likely an association there).
Food for thought anyway. As always, it could be all wrong.
SULLYFISH66 wrote:"I've long held the theory that people are who they really are when they are drunk"
Pleeeeese!!
It's a mood-altering, mind-altering DRUG. Reduces inhibitions, clouds judgements, exacerbates impulsivity.
The guy CAN"T drink. Gets nuts when he does. There are many people like that - termed alcoholics.
He's darn lucky he didn't kill her. But there is no way he really meant to, and probably no court would convict him, under the influence, as he was.
She needs to know this. Especially if she wants to continue her partying.
I was on a jury that convicted two men in first degree murder - they got life and a day - no chance of parole. Their defense was that they were drunk - didn't hold water in this case.
Where I come from, there is a saying, "What's said when drunk was thought out when sober". Substitute "done" for "said" and you pretty much have the situation that the OP was in, in my opinion. I have met plenty of people who were nice, friendly people when sober, and even nicer, friendlier people when drunk. I have also met people who were nice, friendly people when sober and who turned into nasty pieces of work after just one or two drinks. There is a well known personality change phenomenon which some people exhibit after taking alcohol.
Can I remind everyone here that ALL of these people were drinking? Probably all drunk?
So you have some kids who were drinking, one or both got out of control and she's crying the blues and finger pointing.
He needs to sober up, go home, and find his "country" niche, because being with her in the city apartment is not bringing out the best in him.
She needs to sober up, go back to school, and consider herself lucky.
. . . . and the beat goes on . . .
Quote:Can I remind everyone here that ALL of these people were drinking? Probably all drunk?
Everyone has acknowledged that.
Sorry Sully but i deeply object to that post. How old do you think I am? Twelve?
I have not finger pointed once. Notice how I'm posting discreetly on the internet, not shouting 'woman beater' and phoning the police. Also- like I said, he DOES NOT live with me. I welcome you commenting on this thread, but the object was for a discussion on sober/drunk actions/issues surrounding actions etc. please could you read my posts properly?
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