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New softener settings/setup..what do you think

 
 
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2008 07:33 am
I will probably post pics of the setup over the weekend. it was done in a tight spot. Here are the stats from my other thread and I'm just wondering if you think it was setup correctly at 650 gallons and using 6lbs of salt he said. It went off for the first time last night of course and while i definitely noticed a difference in the shower today, just was wondering if it gets any 'softer' or on the first charge it's 'up to speed' so to speak?

2 person household
24 grains and .5 chlorine
fleck cu5600r4tf
the softener has 32K capacity, 3/4 inch, 9"x48 resin volume 1.0
18x30 tank 300 lbs fill 10gpm service flow, 2.0 backwash flow
c100e salt saving resin
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 5,538 • Replies: 71
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luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2008 08:37 pm
didnt get pics up yet but am happy to have the water back for a week....wish there was an ez way to tell if it recharged as i'm not sure if 650 gal is 'right' for us. I guess just monitor how soft the water feels? Just curious if it's worth trying to stretch the salt out or leave as is
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2008 05:56 pm
The people you bought the softener from should be answering your questions. If not, then to help others not have the same problem, post the name.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 09:07 am
Re: New softener settings/setup..what do you think
luckydriver wrote:


I will probably post pics of the setup over the weekend.


That would help us help you.
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luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 12:32 pm
really? I had thought all you would need to determine if the thing was calibrated appropriately would be the specs i posted in post 1. When I get time ill do the pics though if it's critical.
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 12:52 pm
luckydriver,

The resin is ready to go when new.

Soft = "0" hardness. Water can't be softer than that.

At the current settings is your softener regenerating every 6 or 7 days and providing soft water until regeneration?

You can buy test strips to check the water.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2008 09:49 am
No you don't need to post pictures, except for h20man...

IIRC I attempted to educate you about softener sizing before you bought one. I guess you listened to someone else here.

It is a 1 cuft softener, not a 32K. The K of capacity is adjustable and depends on the volume and type of resin and then the lbs of salt used.

To prove that, you say it is programmed for 24K. But you don't tell us the rest of the programming.

C-100e is not salt saving salt, it is regular mesh resin and your salt efficiency is not very good with 24k in a 1.0 cuft softener.

And your softener has a 9 gpm SFR, not 10 gpm.

Who did you buy it from?
0 Replies
 
luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 09:17 am
justalurker wrote:
luckydriver,

The resin is ready to go when new.

Soft = "0" hardness. Water can't be softer than that.

At the current settings is your softener regenerating every 6 or 7 days and providing soft water until regeneration?

You can buy test strips to check the water.


Hmm now i wonder if my spa testing kit could be used to test the water?

I have no idea if it's regenerating every x days since i'm in bed at 2am lol. I do have soft water though so i guess it must be working correctly.

Gary Slusser wrote:
No you don't need to post pictures, except for h20man...

IIRC I attempted to educate you about softener sizing before you bought one. I guess you listened to someone else here.

It is a 1 cuft softener, not a 32K. The K of capacity is adjustable and depends on the volume and type of resin and then the lbs of salt used.

To prove that, you say it is programmed for 24K. But you don't tell us the rest of the programming.

C-100e is not salt saving salt, it is regular mesh resin and your salt efficiency is not very good with 24k in a 1.0 cuft softener.

And your softener has a 9 gpm SFR, not 10 gpm.

Who did you buy it from?


Every statistic in post 1 was gleaned off the sales literature handed to me or him telling me he set it up for 650 gallons and 6lbs of salt per recharge. If you are saying the literature is wrong or he lied, then i guess i do have a legal course of action. You cite some pretty specific things and i'm curious where the literature is wrong and how you can know what i have wrong just based on what i've typed here.

as far as what other programming, you'll have to tell me how to find out what that is that you need and how i can get it. (also i'm not telling you anything to prove anything, i'm merely parroting what is on my literature and what the installer told me)

if you could explain why my efficiency isnt good I'd appreciate it. If he didnt give me what I was supposed to get, I guess we have a serious issue.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 09:42 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
No you don't need to post pictures, except for h20man...


Pictures help others that come to this forum seeking help, but it's all about you and your effort to sell here ....
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 12:14 pm
lucky... Sales literature and actual control valve programming is two different things, that's because the programming is all adjustable. But without you knowing how to get into the dealer/installer side of the control valve, you can't change it or check it. I can't recall without looking it up how to do that on a Fleck whatever. And, if you want to use the figures on the brochure, why do you want us to check the programming!

6lbs in a 1.0 cuft of regular mesh resin regenerates 20K; not 24 or 30 or 32k.

With variable reserve, 20000/24 gpg = 833 gallons between regenerations. 833/120= 6.9 days between regenerations.

Without variable reserve 20000, - 2880 grains for a day's reserve at (2 people * 60 gals/day) 120 = 17120 usable capacity. Then 17120/24=713 gals / (2 people * 60 gals/day) 120 = 5.9 days between regenerations.

He may be using more water per person per day than my 60 gals/person but 60 is rarely wrong.

Did you say in another thread that you bought a 6700, or was it a 5600, you haven't said here in this thread.

h20man.... what would a picture do for you so you could check his programming? It is a Fleck SE or mechanical metered and the only two choices unless we throw in a day clock timer type. (note that I don't need no stinkin' picture youngin')

BTW, since you want a picture "to help others", ya think maybe you should look at your private PMs and email the same way.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 12:51 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:


It is a Fleck SE or mechanical metered and the only two choices unless we throw in a day clock timer type.

BTW, since you want a picture "to help others", ya think maybe you should look at your private PMs and email the same way.


3 choices and you still don't know... a picture would help everybody.

Rolling Eyes Customer service is my #1 priority ~ I have no PMs or emails that have not been read and replied to.
0 Replies
 
luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 01:57 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:
lucky... Sales literature and actual control valve programming is two different things, that's because the programming is all adjustable. But without you knowing how to get into the dealer/installer side of the control valve, you can't change it or check it. I can't recall without looking it up how to do that on a Fleck whatever. And, if you want to use the figures on the brochure, why do you want us to check the programming!

6lbs in a 1.0 cuft of regular mesh resin regenerates 20K; not 24 or 30 or 32k.

Did you say in another thread that you bought a 6700, or was it a 5600, you haven't said here in this thread.



fleck cu5600r4tf per post my data in post one. Or 5600 for those that dont like the added data on it (again just following the literature in case it means something)

Ok you said 6lb generates 20 K, does that mean if i dont like the softness I can adjust it to use more and get softer water? Or am i locked in based on what equipment i have?

so if i go home and open the manual and find out to get into the secret panel, what will i be looking for?

The reason i ask on this website what is up is because i like to get different opinions on the facts as i've been told i have things setup at home.

I'm trying to get a handle on whether or not i got too ripped off for 1300 bucks. Of course if i call and ask the people i bought it from then will 100% say this is the best setup. Wouldnt you say that to all your customers? of course Smile So thats why im here, soliciting advice on what i know nothing about
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 10:28 am
luckydriver wrote:
fleck cu5600r4tf per post my data in post one. Or 5600 for those that dont like the added data on it (again just following the literature in case it means something)

The additional data only means something to the dealer that sold it to you. Fleck only makes the control valve. That is the 5600 part of all that.

luckydriver wrote:
Ok you said 6lb generates 20 K, does that mean if i dont like the softness I can adjust it to use more and get softer water? Or am i locked in based on what equipment i have?

No it doesn't, and no you can't. Water is either hard, meaning it has one or more gpg of hardness in it or soft, 0 gpg hardness. If a softener allows hard water through it, there is something wrong, although the WQA says no more than 1 gpg is acceptable. I say 0 gpg and size for that.

Think of your gas tank in your car... you stop for gas when the dash gauge says 1/4 tank and you have a 20 gal tank. You fill up by buying 3/4s of a tank; 15 gals. You didn't lose or waste the 1/4 tank (5 gals) right, it's still in the tank and you could have used it to go farther. Well your volume of resin is full capacity at 30k. If you use it all, it takes 15 lbs of salt to put it all back in the tank. You didn't waste or lose the 10k left in the bed when the valve is programmed to regen at 20k. That's why we can put 20k back in the tank with only 6 lbs of salt. Got it?

But you should check the salt dose to make sure of what it is set to.

luckydriver wrote:
so if i go home and open the manual and find out to get into the secret panel, what will i be looking for?

Unless you have the supplemental pages for a 5600, directions to the "secret panel" won't be in your consumer service manual. Most local dealers don't give them to you so you have to call them for service... and you wouldn't know how to set up the softener with no experience anyway. Dealers spend a lot of time learning how to set up softeners for the water quality in their area and then set all softeners the same way BUT... water quality is different from one city or part of a city, or a private well to the next. But then most dealers don't know what they are doing, and plumbers and well drillers know even less. And then there are the forum know it all self appointed 'experts' that have owned a softener or two for a time and put out incorrect opinions on how things should be.

luckydriver wrote:
The reason i ask on this website what is up is because i like to get different opinions on the facts as i've been told i have things setup at home.

I'm trying to get a handle on whether or not i got too ripped off for 1300 bucks. Of course if i call and ask the people i bought it from then will 100% say this is the best setup. Wouldnt you say that to all your customers? of course Smile So thats why im here, soliciting advice on what i know nothing about

Then you should have done more research before you were sold something... I tried to tell ya before you went local...

IMO based on being a dealer for 21 years, anyone selling a 1.0 cuft softener with a Fleck 5600 or 2510 SE or not for $1300 installed is charging much more than shall I say a 'fair' price. Unless they are buying it from a pump or plumbing supply house, and then they really aren't a dealer, they are a 'contractor' of the supply house buying on a discounted price off the list price; not wholesale.

Actually no I don't say that to my customers because I have gone over all this with every person that calls me, one at a time personally, BEFORE they buy from me. So they have all the 'facts' and know this stuff before they buy. IOWs I educate them whether they buy from me or not. So my customer doesn't have questions or problems or want to know more after the sale. And every one, since 1987, gets those "secret panel" pages. I've been doing the same thing in Google Groups and on forums like this since Jan 1997. And I am very grateful for the tremendous business I have because of that.

Now all that has to do with only one of the two parts needed to correctly size a softener. The other part is critical and IT IS NOT adjustable. It is the constant flow SFR and you have a 9 gpm SFR softener. Run more than 9 gpm through it and you get hard water, gar un teed as they say.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 12:31 pm
luckydriver wrote:

I'm trying to get a handle on whether or not i got too ripped off for 1300 bucks.


What exactly did $1300.00 buy you? Was installation included?
Can you exchange it for a system with the Fleck 2510SE control valve?
_________________
If you pay <$700 including UPS delivery for your H2O system - you're not getting professional installation or service.
Caveat Emptor: You get what you pay for - You don't get what you don't pay for.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 12:38 pm
The control valve has nothing to do with what I told him, except he'd need the right supplemental pages for it, yet you act as if it does....
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 12:52 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:
The control valve has nothing to do with what I told him, except he'd need the right supplemental pages for it, yet you act as if it does....
Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 04:07 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:

Water is either hard, meaning it has one or more gpg of hardness in it or soft, 0 gpg hardness. If a softener allows hard water through it, there is something wrong, although the WQA says no more than 1 gpg is acceptable. I say 0 gpg and size for that.


well so far i have no hint that i have anything but soft water. And i have no idea what your last line means Smile

Gary Slusser wrote:

Think of your gas tank in your car... you stop for gas when the dash gauge says 1/4 tank and you have a 20 gal tank. You fill up by buying 3/4s of a tank; 15 gals. You didn't lose or waste the 1/4 tank (5 gals) right, it's still in the tank and you could have used it to go farther. Well your volume of resin is full capacity at 30k. If you use it all, it takes 15 lbs of salt to put it all back in the tank. You didn't waste or lose the 10k left in the bed when the valve is programmed to regen at 20k. That's why we can put 20k back in the tank with only 6 lbs of salt. Got it?

But you should check the salt dose to make sure of what it is set to.



Ok the gas tank thing was good. I have a better understanding now. I forget what you or someone told me before about sizing but from what you are now saying, it appears if it set it at 6lbs every 650 gallons is right ? I did pop the hood and the only measurement i can see is that the dial on the right is set at about 350 gallons (black arrow on plate pointing to it). Now i admit i dont know what that 350 means. But if he told me 650 does that mean he's set it wrong or does that mean i'm reading the wrong thing?


Gary Slusser wrote:

luckydriver wrote:
so if i go home and open the manual and find out to get into the secret panel, what will i be looking for?

Unless you have the supplemental pages for a 5600, directions to the "secret panel" won't be in your consumer service manual.


upon taking off the cover i cant even see where there would be anything secret..the back is totally open and you can see the back of the board etc. No compartments look visible to me. I still would be curious to know if there is a way i can tell it charged overnight other than waiting until 2am. The big dial only says inservice and lists the time on it.

Gary Slusser wrote:

Then you should have done more research before you were sold something... I tried to tell ya before you went local...

IMO based on being a dealer for 21 years, anyone selling a 1.0 cuft softener with a Fleck 5600 or 2510 SE or not for $1300 installed is charging much more than shall I say a 'fair' price.


950 for the unit, about 300 more than what i have seen on other sites for the same thing. I knew that going in. If i didnt say it before, they put together these systems themselves with their own brand. Their other option was kinetico and i wasnt spending that kind of money

Gary Slusser wrote:


Now all that has to do with only one of the two parts needed to correctly size a softener. The other part is critical and IT IS NOT adjustable. It is the constant flow SFR and you have a 9 gpm SFR softener. Run more than 9 gpm through it and you get hard water, gar un teed as they say.


So i'm still a bit confused by all these stats. Based on what i've given as specs from their sheet, did they tell me the truth on what they gave me or not? I recall someone telling me you cant get 'something' out of 'something' that I posted. You said if you run more than 9gpm thru the thing and ill get hard water. I dont get that. How does one control how much goes thru the softener? I assume that's part of the setting the tech did and what you are asking me to check on ( but i dont know how)?
0 Replies
 
luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 04:14 pm
H2O_MAN wrote:
luckydriver wrote:

I'm trying to get a handle on whether or not i got too ripped off for 1300 bucks.


What exactly did $1300.00 buy you? Was installation included?
Can you exchange it for a system with the Fleck 2510SE control valve?
_________________
.


950 plus 300 install plus tax is 1300. spent 3 hours installing it and tossed in one of those filters to prevent larger particles from entering the softener.

Im not exchanging anything now unless i find out (and understand well enough to be able to go toe to toe) that they lied to me about what they gave me and it wont do the job it's supposed to.

Thats what im trying to get evaluated here. And while i admit to asking about the price, in the end as long as the thing is set up correctly, is reliable and works as it's supposed to, I can deal with the 1300 bucks because I needed it ASAP and did want to go local and didnt mind paying the price. These people have been in the softener business decades and have their own installers etc. I like to support the local economy when i can on things that very likely will need servicing at some point in my life.
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 04:25 pm
luckydriver wrote:
I needed it ASAP and did want to go local and didnt mind paying the price. These people have been in the softener business decades and have their own installers etc. I like to support the local economy when i can on things that very likely will need servicing at some point in my life.


A wise decision. If you have questions about the softener setup then ask your dealer.

You trusted them with your money now trust their skill and expertise.

luckydriver wrote:
so far i have no hint that i have anything but soft water.


Then you've got exactly what you want... soft water.

Don't feed the sales troller. He'll just continue to beat you up for his own amusement.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 04:31 pm
luckydriver wrote:


Im not exchanging anything now unless i find out (and understand well enough to be able to go toe to toe) that they lied to me about what they gave me and it wont do the job it's supposed to.

These people have been in the softener business decades and have their own installers etc. I like to support the local economy when i can on things that very likely will need servicing at some point in my life.


Understood.

As justalurker said: You trusted them with your money now trust their skill and expertise.
0 Replies
 
 

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