ideal welfare sytem

ehBeth wrote:

flaja wrote:
vid wrote:
flaja wrote:
So none of you libs can design a welfare system that works?

Given that you start by saying there is an unlimited amount of money, I'd give every citizen a trillion dollars, whether they needed it or not, and let them look after themselves.

With no provisions or safeguards to see to it that the money isn't wasted?

That would mean government, and I disapprove of government on principle.

It wouldn't mean government if a private charity or a church were running the welfare programs and spending the money.

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parados wrote:

But your scenario has unlimited money flaja. How can you "waste money" if you have unlimited supply?

Waste in the sense that no matter how much money is spent the reason why the money is being spent never goes away. If you give someone all the money in the world to send their kids to school and their kids never go to school the need to educate these kids will still exist so the money is wasted. When I say you have an unlimited amount of money I mean you can spend enough to accomplish what your welfare program is meant to accomplish, which in my view means reducing the need for the welfare program.

Quote:

You have also ignored vid's point that no one would sell heroin since everyone would have money and not need more by selling drugs

I didn't ignore this. Granted Vid would consider giving everyone a guaranteed and lavish living as a valid welfare system. But to a conservative like me this is anathema. Giving someone a guaranteed living means making them dependent, which simply perpetuates the need for the guaranteed living welfare program.

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vid wrote:

Point 1. There was no mention in your intro regarding provisions. If this supply of provisions is also unlimited, I would give each person a freezer full of beef and another of pork, unless their religion forbids either or, in which case I would substitute the forbidden meat with lamb.

You are either an ignorant fool, or you are refusing to take this issue seriously- or is it both?

I am not talking about provisions in terms of food, but rather legal/contractual obligations designed to prevent abuse of the welfare system.

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ehBeth wrote:

flaja wrote:
So none of you libs can design a welfare system that works?

And cons can?

How could we since we are too busy trying to deal with the consequences of the libs' failures.

But when we do manage to make an effort it's called private charity and philanthropy and supply-side economics.

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flaja wrote:

vid wrote:
Point 1. There was no mention in your intro regarding provisions. If this supply of provisions is also unlimited, I would give each person a freezer full of beef and another of pork, unless their religion forbids either or, in which case I would substitute the forbidden meat with lamb.

You are either an ignorant fool, or you are refusing to take this issue seriously- or is it both?

I am not talking about provisions in terms of food, but rather legal/contractual obligations designed to prevent abuse of the welfare system.

I didn't see any mention of legal/contractual obligations, and therefore am quite entitled to interpret the meaning of the word "provisions" in the context of welfare, as a quick and efficient means of caring for the welfare claiming masses by ensuring that they have enough to eat.

Maybe a whole freezer full of beef would be over the top.

Broth then, what about broth? In cold weather, it's the ideal thing if you're hungry and only have a trillion dollars in your pocket.

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vid wrote:

I didn't see any mention of legal/contractual obligations, and therefore am quite entitled to interpret the meaning of the word "provisions" in the context of welfare, as a quick and efficient means of caring for the welfare claiming masses by ensuring that they have enough to eat.

If you honestly got food out of the context in which I used the term provisions, you must be a real lu-lu in the intellect department.

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flaja wrote:

vid wrote:
I didn't see any mention of legal/contractual obligations, and therefore am quite entitled to interpret the meaning of the word "provisions" in the context of welfare, as a quick and efficient means of caring for the welfare claiming masses by ensuring that they have enough to eat.

If you honestly got food out of the context in which I used the term provisions, you must be a real lu-lu in the intellect department.

Is this a round about way of saying that you think that broth would be a bad idea?

OK, what type of provisions would you suggest. Remember, it's winter out there.

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Vid is havin' too much fun . . .

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Shhhhh...

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IF flaja had any money , do you think he'd be willing to share any of it ?
i'm not going to wait for his handout ; i'm prepared to shovel my own !
hbg

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flaja wrote:

but rather legal/contractual obligations

flaja wrote:

running programs

flaja wrote:

... your whole first post ...

you are a bit orders, rules, and sticking-into-a-box-oriented, aren't you?

we sure can't let you into the libertarians' clubhouse

~~~

We'll be having broth. And sammiches.

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ehBeth wrote:

we sure can't let you into the libertarians' clubhouse

That's the kindest thing any of you fruitcakes here have ever said to me.

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Now we're on to fruitcakes? Highly nutritional, I grant you, but what about the broth idea? It's warming, it's easy to make and not cost prohibitive.

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Fruitcake is a joke . . . nobody actually eats fruitcake. I suggest sammiches . . . broth, of course, if you've got it, but everybody has to make his or her own.

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There's also problems with nut allergy as regards fruit cake.

Flaja, just one more question - are you a Republican?, as no matter how much I've read and re-read your posts, your allegiance isn't obvious and I can't seem to make up my mind. I know it's a bit of a personal question, but I'm dying to know.

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NSDAP, i think . . .

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Sieg!

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Heil!

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vid wrote:

There's also problems with nut allergy as regards fruit cake.

Flaja, just one more question - are you a Republican?, as no matter how much I've read and re-read your posts, your allegiance isn't obvious and I can't seem to make up my mind. I know it's a bit of a personal question, but I'm dying to know.

I haven't been a Republican since 10 GOP senators voted to acquit Clinton in 1998.

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I've personally helped people get off of welfare by teaching them to read, showing them how to open a checking account and working with them to find a job that is the proper skill level for their abilities. I've never been a social worker, only a volunteer. Our system just smashes people down and makes sure they stay there. A good system fills in the survival skills that should have learned from parents or at school. I've never met a person on public assistance that was proud or happy about their circumstances. Most are embarrassed and discouraged. Almost all come from abusive homes in which addiction was common. Poverty was their only example of how to live. I don't think children should pay for sins of their parents and our indifferent society, and all people deserve a second chance at finding success on some level.

Flaja - have you ever looked at the requirements to become a welfare recipient in this country? Have you ever looked at the paperwork you need to fill out just to get food stamps? I suggest you explore this world before you condemn it. What would have become of you if you never knew your father and your mother was drug addict?

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ideal welfare sytem

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