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Is the Bible Reliable? Science and Scripture

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2008 02:20 pm
Thanks for your support.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2008 03:15 pm
baddog1 wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Translation: You're not prepared to answers Terry's questions, so you will dance...


Wrong. Like Spendius says in so many words; those questions will only lead to a dance.

What are your thoughts on the chapter concerning 'Abiogenesis'? Have you ever read any of Dr. Wilder Smith's material?


I asked you first. At such point as you stop dancing, and answer Terry's pertinent questions, i'll have a look at your abiogenesis drek . . .
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2008 03:24 pm
"I was sat here first", said the little chimp to the big chimp.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 06:29 am
Setanta wrote:
baddog1 wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Translation: You're not prepared to answers Terry's questions, so you will dance...


Wrong. Like Spendius says in so many words; those questions will only lead to a dance.

What are your thoughts on the chapter concerning 'Abiogenesis'? Have you ever read any of Dr. Wilder Smith's material?


I asked you first. At such point as you stop dancing, and answer Terry's pertinent questions, i'll have a look at your abiogenesis drek . . .


I thought the chapter me be a little beyond your comprehension. No problem set. Catch you on the next one.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 06:47 am
farmerman wrote:
Id expect nothing less from you in the miscomprehension department...


This statement from you; "...ALl I can ask is that you develop a more critical eye and read more of all sides of an argument..." is not a misconception.

I find it interesting (and consistent with your overall position) that you will minimize the qualifications of a celebrated scientist when his/her position does not sit well with your beliefs.

I was a little surprised at your position on historical data and those who founded that data, as shown here: "You may be im pressed with degrees, I am not. Its not at all a matter of what you did to "get your ticket punched" Its "what have you done to advance anything lately" SCience does not stand in awe of its overachievers in the degree department."

Given this overall skepticism - it would be consistent for you to question ALL scientific historical data (including textbooks, journals, papers, etc.)

I highly doubt that you enthusiastically question data that is consistent with your chosen position - at least to the same level that you do with information from those whose position you oppose. In other words - you clearly maintain a double standard.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 10:11 am
You may have missed farmerman's point, baddog. He would like you to "develop a more critical eye" regarding the contentions made by a person (regardless of that person's background).
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 10:35 am
wandeljw wrote:
You may have missed farmerman's point, baddog. He would like you to "develop a more critical eye" regarding the contentions made by a person (regardless of that person's background).


Thanks wandeljw for your perspective. I am pretty sure that I understand fm's position about having a "critical eye" and the point is sound. As you know - the word "critical" has a few definitions. I considered the word "critical" in this instance to see something more clearly, so to speak. For fm to point out to anyone that they should "develop a more critical eye" is fine; as long as fm is doing the same. It is not well received if the presenter is not doing the same. Much like a father who is advising his child not to smoke through lips clenching a Marlboro - the message is not well taken.

In other words - given his advice - fm should be as "critical" about EVERYONE's works.

Thanks.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 10:47 am
baddog1 wrote:
wandeljw wrote:
You may have missed farmerman's point, baddog. He would like you to "develop a more critical eye" regarding the contentions made by a person (regardless of that person's background).


Thanks wandeljw for your perspective. I am pretty sure that I understand fm's position about having a "critical eye" and the point is sound. As you know - the word "critical" has a few definitions. I considered the word "critical" in this instance to see something more clearly, so to speak. For fm to point out to anyone that they should "develop a more critical eye" is fine; as long as fm is doing the same. It is not well received if the presenter is not doing the same. Much like a father who is advising his child not to smoke through lips clenching a Marlboro - the message is not well taken.

In other words - given his advice - fm should be as "critical" about EVERYONE's works.

Thanks.


It seems to me that farmerman is "critical" about everyone's works and that farmerman does practice what he preaches:

farmerman wrote:
You may be impressed with degrees, I am not. Its not at all a matter of what you did to "get your ticket punched" Its "what have you done to advance anything lately" SCience does not stand in awe of its overachievers in the degree department. Its what you do with it. Smith's contributions (valid as they are) hardly confer on him any more credibility than mine as an actual day to day worker with the "fossil record".
RL has frequently championed the very same argument based upon achieved degree "authority", and thats bogus as bogus can be. Plenty of SCientists , although degreed out the ying-yang were often dead wrong in their new lines of thought (marshall Kay, Steve Gould, Steve Austen,ALbert EInstein) Desmond Morris,)
Darwin, an admittedly underachieving individual, really only authored 3 really important works (out of the 13 he published) yet noone has knocked him off the pedestal for being the most important scientific mind of the MILLENIUM,(At least not yet).

I like Ray Charles music, but I think his later jazz covers are crap. Even "The Babe struck out a lot". So please dont fall into the trap of overlapping accolades based solely upon degree attainment. Dr Smith was a damned good pharmacologist , and , by extension, his training in microbio and biochem were useful at "boutiquing molecules" for pharma developments. So what? The fact is, he had very little experience with "the fossil record" or "Cosmology" and He was an amateur whose own religious beliefs carried all his weight in those fields. His biography lists "Creationist" in his accomplishments. Thats a stance thats not ever attained by evidence, its a belief that goes before all reliance on any evidence and whenever evidence is presented, the CReationist tries to align the evidence with his beliefs.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 11:34 am
wandeljw wrote:
baddog1 wrote:
wandeljw wrote:
You may have missed farmerman's point, baddog. He would like you to "develop a more critical eye" regarding the contentions made by a person (regardless of that person's background).


Thanks wandeljw for your perspective. I am pretty sure that I understand fm's position about having a "critical eye" and the point is sound. As you know - the word "critical" has a few definitions. I considered the word "critical" in this instance to see something more clearly, so to speak. For fm to point out to anyone that they should "develop a more critical eye" is fine; as long as fm is doing the same. It is not well received if the presenter is not doing the same. Much like a father who is advising his child not to smoke through lips clenching a Marlboro - the message is not well taken.

In other words - given his advice - fm should be as "critical" about EVERYONE's works.

Thanks.


It seems to me that farmerman is "critical" about everyone's works and that farmerman does practice what he preaches:

farmerman wrote:
You may be impressed with degrees, I am not. Its not at all a matter of what you did to "get your ticket punched" Its "what have you done to advance anything lately" SCience does not stand in awe of its overachievers in the degree department. Its what you do with it. Smith's contributions (valid as they are) hardly confer on him any more credibility than mine as an actual day to day worker with the "fossil record".
RL has frequently championed the very same argument based upon achieved degree "authority", and thats bogus as bogus can be. Plenty of SCientists , although degreed out the ying-yang were often dead wrong in their new lines of thought (marshall Kay, Steve Gould, Steve Austen,ALbert EInstein) Desmond Morris,)
Darwin, an admittedly underachieving individual, really only authored 3 really important works (out of the 13 he published) yet noone has knocked him off the pedestal for being the most important scientific mind of the MILLENIUM,(At least not yet).

I like Ray Charles music, but I think his later jazz covers are crap. Even "The Babe struck out a lot". So please dont fall into the trap of overlapping accolades based solely upon degree attainment. Dr Smith was a damned good pharmacologist , and , by extension, his training in microbio and biochem were useful at "boutiquing molecules" for pharma developments. So what? The fact is, he had very little experience with "the fossil record" or "Cosmology" and He was an amateur whose own religious beliefs carried all his weight in those fields. His biography lists "Creationist" in his accomplishments. Thats a stance thats not ever attained by evidence, its a belief that goes before all reliance on any evidence and whenever evidence is presented, the CReationist tries to align the evidence with his beliefs.


I should have been more literal in my delivery as I agree that everyone is "critical" of everyone else's work in one way or another; to varying degrees.

So now the question comes down to; how "critical" is too "critical" for each person(s) referenced or supported? One commonly used method of acceptance is professional qualifications. Another - accomplishments. Another - education level. Another - what schools attended...

It doesn't really matter what criteria is used - as long as the criteria is equitable.

Does that make better sense?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 02:27 pm
It's enough to make a cat laugh wande that fm and yourself pontificate about having a "critical eye".

Any plonker can talk about such a thing in order to give the impression that they employ one themselves. There's a mile long series of posts in another place which prove conclusively that fm and yourself have no clue what a "critical eye" actually entails in the action department.

I wrote-

Quote:
I put my critical eye on this fm-

Quote:
the discovery of the surface chemistry reactions that offered insights into the geochemistry of the living state.


What does it mean. Babies discover surface chemistry reactions before they can walk. And once discovered obviously they offer insights into the geochemistry of the living state. How could it be otherwise.


My reply was intended to demonstrate that fm's statement was a banality dressed up in big words. A droning noise to be precise.

Why is your "critical eye" not having a look at that instead of lecturing us about having such a faculty.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 02:37 pm
My "critical eye" did take a look at your post, spendi. I decided your post was merely a "droning noise".
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 03:10 pm
One could hardly say that such a response is as a result of a "critical eye".

It is, as usual, merely a facilitating assertion.

You are supposed to show, with a "critical eye" what fm's statement meant and thus show that my response to it made no sense.

What , for example, does "discovery of the surface chemistry reactions" mean when examined with a "critical eye"? And what does offering "insights into the geochemistry of the living state" mean.

Picking one's nose does that if you bring a "critical eye" into play.

You, like fm, simply like the sound of your own voice irrespective of whether what you are saying means anything when a "critical eye" is deployed.

Why was what I said a "droning noise" when I invited you to run this much vaunted "critical eye" of your's over fm's flannel which only serves the purpose of making fm sound scientific and superior to those who lack a "critical eye" as you have obviously just shown to be your general condition and, as such, consistent with your track record.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 03:41 pm
Quote:
I highly doubt that you enthusiastically question data that is consistent with your chosen position - at least to the same level that you do with information from those whose position you oppose. In other words - you clearly maintain a double standard.
.

This is a POS statement that shows that you have no idea about me . You and I sit in total anonymity and the only things we can critique of each other is what we write exposito, in this forum. Lets not stray into what you think I may do in my "day job".

In retrospect, perhaps I was too critical of your Dr Smith. I merely wanted you to know(by the 3 examples of his questionable past) That he, like many of us, have feet of clay and , I further admonish you not to accept the accolades conferred upon the dead by others who wish to use Dr Smith as an unassailable expert in everything. Hes not, far from it. HE , like a number of scientists who publish their own tracts outside their areas of expwertise (or areas within their expertise of which others have more experience). SMiths, support of the fraudulent PALUXY RIVER FOOTPRINTS, should make us pause and question his scientific objectivity. The fact that he was to have delivered the Huxley lecture in 1986, and the claim that he was "converted to Creationism" were both statements first made by the DEmbski Crew at Discovery Institute(post mortem).
There are some other pieces of possible fraud that are from Dr SMiths own memoirs. HEd claimed that he was a "general" of NATO , and was the originator of the "New 2nd LAw of Thermodynamics" to supplant Thompson's.

I can back all this up should you wish. Most all of this is literature citable and Im sure there are web sites on Dr Smith by his supplicants (as well as those of us less impressed by his WORDS re: the subjects he professes)

Im somewhat amused that, despite the material Ive already given on SMith, your principle thrust is a weak ad hominem on me. Dont worry, I can take it and I can , further, see through it. Your statements tell me that "Perhaps Baddog oughta do some more home work when he presents a "hero" for consideration.


Spendi, rather than "continually "opening your mouth and dispelling all doubts" You can easily look up SURFACE CHEMISTRY, COLLAPSING DOUBLE LAYERS, ZETA POTENTIAL , SORPTION PHENOMENA etc. I checked, and Ive found that google can lead you far along the path of understanding. That way, you wont look the fool when you make statements like
Quote:

Quote:
the discovery of the surface chemistry reactions that offered insights into the geochemistry of the living state.


What does it mean. Babies discover surface chemistry reactions before they can walk. And once discovered obviously they offer insights into the geochemistry of the living state. How could it be otherwise.


My reply was intended to demonstrate that fm's statement was a banality dressed up in big words. A droning noise to be precise
Obviously you screwed up in that statement.

In your efforts to be clever and witty, your references often tend to be out in left field so that you look like you dont know of what youre speaking .The hell of it was, unless youve got the creeping Alzheimers, weve discussed these concepts in the past .
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 06:26 pm
fm wrote-

Quote:
SMiths, support of the fraudulent PALUXY RIVER FOOTPRINTS, should make us pause and question his scientific objectivity.


Well I think that any man who agrees with his wife, assuming the honeymoon is over, that she looks resplendent and ravishingly sexy in her new frock, or basque and sussies if it is close to midnight, forget the dawn with the golden rays of the rising sun slanting through the chintz curtains ( $369), should make us pause and question his scientific objectivity.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 06:35 pm
fm wrote-

Quote:
youve got the creeping Alzheimers,


Have you not got that fm?

You should get an agent. You'll clean up.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 07:14 pm
Stay out of the way spendi, youre a nuisance . Im waiting for BAddog. Id rather he speak for himself rather than have some saloon bufoon apparently doing all his talking and he just lip synchs :wink:
0 Replies
 
anton bonnier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 07:29 pm
Farmerman... I enjoy reading Spends posts. He has a way of masterbating words so he can see what comes from them, in most cases a very good fertilizer for his bibical beliefs.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2008 07:03 am
What "biblical beliefs" are you referring to ab?

fm wrote-

Quote:
Stay out of the way spendi, youre a nuisance .


Attempted censorship justified by an assertion. That's what rl was meaning with his "mandated beliefs" statement. And the first response contradicts you unless "enjoyment" is off your list of lifestyle choices.

Aren't all experts a nuisance? They sure have spoiled our enjoyment of tobacco and other drugs, of sex, of eating scrummy grub, of boozing and of dossing. Some of them are at work on spoiling our enjoyment of religious ceremonies. Bloody roundheads eh?

The Chief Constable of North Wales, Mr Richard Brunstrom, a man who stunned himself with a Taser gun to prove they are not dangerous, has said that ecstasy is " a remarkably safe substance" and "safer than aspirin" and he says that heroin "is not particularly dangerous" and that it is its illegality which makes it so.

Greg Gutfeld wrote-

Quote:
You big, boozy, lazy, beautiful Brits--I love ya.


Google the guy. Restore your faith in America.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 07:40 am
CHAPTER 14

THE PROPHET OF THE UNKNOWN TOMB


...

Source: http://www.williambrugman.com/BeyondaShadowChapters13through19.html
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 07:45 am
Quote:
...When a naturalist feels hemmed in by the evidence against his adopted position, he will usually resort to the "miracles do not occur" argument, but sometimes will retreat to the old stand by


Im not aware of ANY evidence that counters "naturalistic" positions. Please elucidate.
0 Replies
 
 

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