The KKK are right

neologist wrote:

xingu wrote:
neologist wrote:
I have no fear of those who would die for their faith; it is those who murder for their faith who scare me.

Nice to know Christians have never done that.
Using the capital "C" would make you correct. However, many nominal christians have made a mockery of Jesus' message.

While we are at it, and speaking of moral bankruptcy, has there ever been another religious group that has resorted to the use of the mentally retarded to deliver their 'suicide' bombs?

Evil enough to have duped those of normal intelligence. . .

No. Suicide bombs are a very new weapon so you can't make that type of comparison. Did Christians in the past ever whip up mentally challenged people and have them go out and kill others?

Wouldn't surprise me. Religious fanatics are basically the same regardless of the faith.

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Intrepid wrote:

xingu wrote:
Quote:
There are many different Gods in the Christian religion,

I am sure that Christians will be surprised to learn this. It's a good thing that you know so much about Christianity so that you can enlighten Christians who, up until now, knew of only one God in Christiandom.

Each sect makes up their own God. Sure they say it the same God found in the Bible but they all have different rules. So, for me, they're different.

Some Gods send you to Hell and others don't. Is the Mormon God the same as the SDA God? The SDA God will send you to hell to burn for eternity if you go to church on Sunday.

Some God's change over time. I still can't figure out the Catholic God. At one time their God sent all who were not baptised Catholic to Hell (EENS). I think It's changed its mind since then.

Seems like whenever someone makes a specific statement about the Christian religion someone pops up and says, 'Hold on there. My God doesn't do that.'

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I had dinner last night with a Seventh Day Adventist preacher. He said they really are Christian but just go to church on Saturday. I never got to find out why. Presumably the Sixth Day Adventists attend church on Fridays.

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neologist wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:
. . . A quick observation before I continue. In your reply, you refer to God as "he" or "him," which in itself is a human created box to define god. I find this to be very ironic, and yet profoundly related to the question at hand.
Perhaps more so than many would like to admit. The supreme issue of the universe relates to the issue of headship, not gender.

1Cr 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1Cr 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

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So what we have here is a very sexist God. Does that mean equal rights for women and a woman leader (such as Margaret Thatcher) is sin, in that sin is an act that goes against God's wish? ? ? ?

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xingu wrote:

So what we have here is a very sexist God. Does that mean equal rights for women and a woman leader (such as Margaret Thatcher) is sin, in that sin is an act that goes against God's wish? ? ? ?

Yer a hoot, xingu

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And he asks good questions to boot neo.

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Here's an interesting point of view from that tragedy that happened last Tuesday;

Quote:

Standing Wednesday amid the debris field of twisted metal and pink insulation, Carmon Lagunes struggled to grasp why God would take her sister.

"That's his wrath," she said, looking toward the wreckage. "For some reason, he's not happy right now and this is. ... Nobody understands God's will. I sure as hell don't understand it.

Said Anita Goodnight, the sisters' aunt: "God didn't do it. Satan did."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080207/ap_on_re_us/severe_weather_victim_s_story;_ylt=AmeNnCcg1f33PNxVIaI0uLCs0NUE

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real life,

There is a difference between "parroting" as you call it, and quoting. I do not steal ideas from other people (or certain religious books). I learn from them, and I would be a fool not to do so. I develop my own ideas, often based on others, yes, but I don't plain out copy them.

Arella Mae also uses the term.

To me, a theist calling an atheist a "parrot" is an act of utter blind hypocracy. Atheists don't become one of the flock of their local religion. We are individuals.

Someone once said, (please spare me the crap, real life) that herding atheists is like herding cats - impossible, because they all have individual minds. Herding religionists, on the other hand... well I'm sure we're all familiar with the popular metaphor.

real life,
The next part of your post regarding good and bad people is completely off the point, indicating that you have no idea, or wish to have no idea, what I'm talking about. If I must point it out to your seemingly slow brain, my point was in the last phrase, that religion causes people to do atrocious things, where they would otherwise not.

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Quote:

I had dinner last night with a Seventh Day Adventist preacher. He said they really are Christian but just go to church on Saturday. I never got to find out why. Presumably the Sixth Day Adventists attend church on Fridays.

Seventh Day Adventists are christian. Funnily enough, they are more mainstream then people realise.

Main differences are :
Church on Saturdays (the Jewish Sabbath which they don't believe was ever changed to Sunday)
Believe in a second coming where christians meet God/Jesus (don't remember which) in the sky
Baptism by emersion (not all denominations practice this)
Don't believe in a hell of eternal punishment (minority here as far as I'm aware)

Hmmm...have health policies - no alcohol/tobacco/drugs

Can't think of any other.

I once found a site that summarised all the different denominations beliefs, but unfortunately I didn't keep it.

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The SDA I knew had a very strong belief in Hell. She told me God put dinosaur "bones" in the earth to test our faith. If anyone believed in evolution as a result of these "bones" they had weak faith and would end up in Hell.

Hell was a very real place for her. Don't know if it lasted for eternity.

This woman was the daughter of one of the leaders of SDA. At the time I knew her the SDA headquarters was still in Takoma Park, MD. She worked there. Claimed she had never eaten a bite of meat in her life. This woman was thoroughly brainwashed.

BTW, that last entry of mine about who to blame for the tornados came up in the news again. I was listening to ABC and one of their reporters was interviewing a woman survivor. Just before the tornados hit her family ran into a concrete shelter. She said during the storm she prayed; "God, this is your storm." Then something about have it pass over us. Their house was destroyed and the shelter saved them.

Funny how some Christians blame God for the storm and others Satan. Makes one wonder what the difference is between the two is. One kills because He's angry (isn't He always) and the other for the hell of it.

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aperson wrote:

real life,
The next part of your post regarding good and bad people is completely off the point, indicating that you have no idea, or wish to have no idea, what I'm talking about. If I must point it out to your seemingly slow brain, my point was in the last phrase, that religion causes people to do atrocious things, where they would otherwise not.

RL always does this. He fancies himself a great debater.

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Quote:

This is pretty close to what I predicted you would answer.

A quick observation before I continue. In your reply, you refer to God as "he" or "him," which in itself is a human created box to define god. I find this to be very ironic, and yet profoundly related to the question at hand.

The problem I have with your reply is that it is completely based on human resolutions on what god is and does, not logic

sorry it took so long to answer.....Deist i didn't choose from my own opinions what God should look like, act like, and do. I did choose to believe the bible and its description of God. have i struggled with things in the bible (specifically the ot) Yeah, and instead of being closedminded and just going on what others tell me, i have studied scriptures that bother me etc. But what i find ironic is that many in this debate, pick a few scriptures, run with it, rant on God being evil etc and yet when we give evidence supporting a less "evil" action, they choose to ignore it and keep up the rant. That is closeminded and ignorant. Very sheeplike, parroting from websites.
and as for Lot...What are you talking about?
and sin is basically anything that falls short of Gods glory and holiness, doing anything that God said not to do.

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Quote:

To me, a theist calling an atheist a "parrot" is an act of utter blind hypocracy. Atheists don't become one of the flock of their local religion. We are individuals.

Someone once said, (please spare me the crap, real life) that herding atheists is like herding cats - impossible, because they all have individual minds. Herding religionists, on the other hand... well I'm sure we're all familiar with the popular metaphor.

atheists are no different than religionists. You guys have a set belief (There is no God) and every one of you are very passionate about it. You have no individual thought on that certain aspect and are extremely focused on proving all religionists are fundamental idiots, and that there is no God. AND.....I might add, you guys are just as closeminded as you claim us to be.

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kate wrote:

But what i find ironic is that many in this debate, pick a few scriptures, run with it, rant on God being evil etc and yet when we give evidence supporting a less "evil" action, they choose to ignore it and keep up the rant. That is closeminded and ignorant. Very sheeplike, parroting from websites.

Kate
If God is so just, loving and good as you would like to believe there should be no "bad" or "evil" parts identified with your God in the Bible. The fact there is, and there is a lot, is a contradiction of what Christians say their God is and what the Bible shows this God to be.

You say we only pick the bad parts and ignore the good. Then we can also say you ignore the bad and only want to believe the good. By your own admission God is bad but you don't want to acknowledge it. You become offended and angry when we point it out.

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BTW, if you read my comments on the recent tornados you will see that Christians still believe God kills people because of his anger. This goes hand in glove with the "bad parts" of the Bible you so dislike. Is this something you will ignore as well?

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aperson wrote:

real life,
The next part of your post regarding good and bad people is completely off the point, indicating that you have no idea, or wish to have no idea, what I'm talking about. If I must point it out to your seemingly slow brain, my point was in the last phrase, that religion causes people to do atrocious things, where they would otherwise not.

My point is that religion does not 'cause' anyone to do anything.

People make choices and take action.

A set of beliefs is just that . Beliefs. People have free will to make their own choices.

Do you believe that people have a free will?

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Quote:

My point is that religion does not 'cause' anyone to do anything.

People make choices and take action.

A set of beliefs is just that . Beliefs. People have free will to make their own choices.

Do you believe that people have a free will?

Hi Real Life, people often get confused about responsibility, and contributing factors (or causal factors)

Each and every person is responsible for his/her own decision. Every decision in based on contributing factors - which influence the decision.

The bible can influence a decision, just as the religion that surrounds it can influence a decision, it can even be the main influence/contributing factor - but the responsibility for an individuals decision resides solely with the individual.

That said - an 'area of greyness' arises when religion so overides any other contributing factor, that there arises an argument over whether 'self' existed when the decision was made (ie whether or not the person could be considered brainwashed)

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kate4christ03 wrote:

Quote:
This is pretty close to what I predicted you would answer.

A quick observation before I continue. In your reply, you refer to God as "he" or "him," which in itself is a human created box to define god. I find this to be very ironic, and yet profoundly related to the question at hand.

The problem I have with your reply is that it is completely based on human resolutions on what god is and does, not logic

sorry it took so long to answer.....Deist i didn't choose from my own opinions what God should look like, act like, and do. I did choose to believe the bible and its description of God. have i struggled with things in the bible (specifically the ot) Yeah, and instead of being closedminded and just going on what others tell me, i have studied scriptures that bother me etc. But what i find ironic is that many in this debate, pick a few scriptures, run with it, rant on God being evil etc and yet when we give evidence supporting a less "evil" action, they choose to ignore it and keep up the rant. That is closeminded and ignorant. Very sheeplike, parroting from websites.
and as for Lot...What are you talking about?
and sin is basically anything that falls short of Gods glory and holiness, doing anything that God said not to do.

god didn't say not to do anything, a man wrote those words. sorry to inform you..
the bible was written by man, and not just "man" in general, many men over many years. this is reality.

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kate4christ03 wrote:

Quote:
To me, a theist calling an atheist a "parrot" is an act of utter blind hypocracy. Atheists don't become one of the flock of their local religion. We are individuals.

Someone once said, (please spare me the crap, real life) that herding atheists is like herding cats - impossible, because they all have individual minds. Herding religionists, on the other hand... well I'm sure we're all familiar with the popular metaphor.

atheists are no different than religionists. You guys have a set belief (There is no God) and every one of you are very passionate about it. You have no individual thought on that certain aspect and are extremely focused on proving all religionists are fundamental idiots, and that there is no God. AND.....I might add, you guys are just as closeminded as you claim us to be.

There are certainly people who make a religion of atheism, and i consider them to be no different than religionists. However, atheists are not by definition of such a character. You have a typical theist blindness. Atheists don't attempt to "prove" that there is no god--it is the failure of anyone to provide proof, or even plausible inference for a god which leads them to reject the concept. You are comparing a belief set to the lack of any such belief set. You have marshaled a set of strawmen. I, personally, don't consider all religionists to be fundamentalist idiots--i do find that it is the fundamentalist idiot variety, however, who rail so loudly against atheists, and make such claims about them. I have no need to prove that there is no god. As no one has ever proven to me that there is, i consider it a useless debate. It is because people's minds are open that they become atheists. It is people who have closed their minds to any possibilities outside their creed that they are canting dogmatists.

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