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Get yer polls, bets, numbers & pretty graphs! Elections 2008

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:05 am
Looking ahead to Texas - Obama is rapidly catching up, also among Latinos:

    "With Edwards and Giuliani dropping out, I decided to poll the race in Texas before Super Tuesday next week." "November and December polls both gave Hillary Clinton a hefty 51% to 17% lead over Barack Obama, but that has changed considerably over the last two polls. Current results give her just a ten point lead over her main rival, 48% to 38%." "Much of Obama's increase has come from his increase in support among Latinos. In December, Clinton had a 70 to 7 lead in this group. The January 10 poll was 63-18. In this poll, the margin was down to 60-29. That is still a wide margin, but 2-1 is a lot different from 10-1. Edwards was at 5% among Latinos in the January 10 poll, so Obama's gain cannot be completely explained by his departure."
Note - the poll only interviewed past primary voters. You would expect a broader approach that includes first-time voters to increase Obama's numbers and lower Hillary's.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:05 am
Oh no. Tearing up in the news again.

Quote:
Hillary Clinton cries in Connecticut
Posted at 10:30 AM

by Jason George

NEW HAVEN, Conn. - Sen. Hillary Clinton teared up this morning at an event at the Yale Child Study Center, where she worked while in law school in the early 1970s.

A doctor, who was introducing Clinton, began to choke up, leading Clinton's eyes to fill with tears, which she wiped out of her left eye. At the time, the doctor was saying how proud he was that sheepskin-coat, bell-bottom-wearing young woman he met in 1972 was now running for president.

"Well, I said I would not tear up; already we're not exactly on the path," Clinton said with emotion after the introduction.


http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/clinton_crys_in_connecticut.html

That "oh no" is not in the "crocodile tears" sense. It just was such a damaging interval in so many different ways last time, and now it's come up again. We'll have people saying she's faking it ("look at the timing!!") and people taking umbrage at people saying she's faking it and...

Oh no.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:06 am
Interesting re: Texas! Not what I'd expect. Austin helps I guess.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:07 am
<represses urge to say "She's faking it! Look at the timing!!">

<hoping media will ignore "story">
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:12 am
I guess I'm more inclined to believe her this time. The situation just sounds a little more normal -- tearing up in response to someone else's tearing up, especially if you have long deep connections to that someone else. Contrast that with tearing up in response to a question from someone you don't know while opportunistically copying your opponent's "this is personal" line.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:16 am
nimh wrote:
<represses>

<hoping>


Why repress, Nimh? Listen to your heart. And your brain.

I understand what you mean about 'young bucks' and our enthusiasm.

But I can tell you that practically nobody (possibly! whew) could have been posting in more places and engaging more people in conversation about Obama-Clinton then I have.

And the vast majority of Hillary's online supporters are women. And they are quick to play the misogny card, the 'she's being picked on by the evvvull boys' card, the 'you think she's a bitch' card. It's plainly clear to me that the fact she is female is not the only reason she has garnered support but it is a prime reason.

Identity politics rule the day. It's the same as saying that Obama heavily wins the black vote due to his stance on foreign trade, that is, ridiculous, to claim that her status as a female isn't a prime driver in the female support for Clinton. And this is a group who provably responds well to emotion. Cold and calculating on her part, and low.

If she's 'been through the wringer' and taken the worst Republicans can throw at her, and supposedly is the 'tougher' candidate, how come she can't keep her sh*t together during her campaign?

Jeez

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:18 am
Thank you Nihm for the time and effort you are putting into this thread. Collecting the research polls and doing some basic analysis is helpful in tracking the ever shifting dynamic of public opinion. Your analysis tends to be balanced and objective. I find myself visiting this thread on a regular basis, though I have reservations about popularity polls in general. Thanks again.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:19 am
And we're off, ladies and gentlemen.

(Cyclops, as an Obama supporter I implore you, zip it!)

The closest I ever came to actually wanting to vote for Hillary was when everyone was jumping on her for the NH tears. So much of it was so misogynist. Makes you want to say "oh YEAH? Guess who I'm voting for, jerks."
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:24 am
OK so "zip it" is too close to "shut the phuck up" and that pissed me off big-time...

Say what you want of course, but this whole identity politics thing is one of the weaker parts of your arguments for Obama IMO. There are a lot of men supporting Hillary. Is that all about identity politics? If these men have reasons for supporting her other than "she has the same sex organs that I do," couldn't women have non-sex-organ related reasons, too?

Making it all about identity politics just insults women -- women who might otherwise be open to the idea of supporting Obama.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:27 am
sozobe wrote:
I didn't see anything about the new Field poll here, forgive me if I'm duplicating. Plus just one poll. But some wowie stuff in it:

Quote:
A startling surge of support for Barack Obama has catapulted the Illinois senator into a virtual tie with Hillary Rodham Clinton in California's Democratic presidential primary, a Field Poll released Saturday shows.


The Field press release on this poll is a very good read:



On the Democratic race in California:

Quote:
Registered Democrats, who the poll finds are accounting for 87% of those likely to vote in the Democratic primary, favor Clinton by six points, 37% to 31%. However, non-partisans who represent another 13% of likely Democratic primary voters now favor Obama by a five to three margin (54% to 32%). [..]

Los Angeles County voters favor Clinton 42% to 34%. By contrast, voters in the nine-county San Francisco Bay Area support Obama 41% to 31%.

There is also a marked gender gap in preferences. Men now support Obama 44% to 31%, while women, who represent 56% of likely Democratic primary voters, favor Clinton 40% to 27%.

Clinton and Obama are dividing the vote of white non-Hispanics evenly (35% each). Latinos, who represent 20% of the likely Democratic electorate, prefer Clinton overwhelmingly (52% to 19%). African-Americans, who comprise a smaller 12% share of the likely Democratic primary voters, support Obama over Clinton 55% to 19%.

Obama holds the lead among younger voters under age 30 (42% to 31%). [..] Clinton, however, is favored by seniors age 65 and over by a greater than two to one margin (40% to 18%).

There is strong support for Obama among liberals (42% to 31%), while the less numerous conservatives are solidly behind Clinton (43% to 23%). Clinton has a small edge among moderate or middle-of-the-road voters (39% to 33%).

Among those who have a high school education or less, sentiment is very much in Clinton's favor - 44% to Obama's 19%. Those who have some college or trade school are evenly divided between the two candidates. College graduates are narrowly for Obama 39% to 35%, while those who have completed post-graduate work are supporting Obama by a larger 42% to 31% margin.

Voters living in households with annual incomes of less than $40,000, as well as those making between $40,000 and $80,000, are supporting Clinton by ten to eleven point margins. However, those living in households whose annual income is more than $80,000 favor Obama 45% to 32%.


On the Republican race in California:

Quote:
McCain's current eight-point lead over Romney in the GOP primary is attributable to his exceptionally strong support from Republicans who classify themselves as moderately conservative or moderate in politics. Among this group, who account for about half of all likely GOP voters (51%), McCain is preferred by a greater than two to one margin (39% to 16%). By contrast, McCain trails Romney by eight points among strong conservatives (25% to 33%).

McCain holds significant leads across most other Republican sub-groups. One exception is among born-again Christians, where McCain is in a virtual tie with Huckabee (McCain 28% vs. 26% for Huckabee). Romney is running a close third among this segment, with 21% of the vote. [..]

[This should work in favour of McCain:] The Republican delegate allocation is different and is based on a "winner-take-all" allocation method, with about 90% of the delegates allocated by CD. Each district, no matter what its number of GOP voters, has three delegates at stake. This means the voting preferences of the relatively small proportion of GOP voters in heavily Democratic districts will matter as much as a district that is heavily Republican. Because of this, it is quite possible that the overall popular vote statewide may not correspond to a candidate's distribution of delegates to the Republican National Convention. [..]


On how to read/take these last-days opinion polls, especially in the races at hand now:

Quote:
In both major party races, there are also unusually large proportions of voters - 18% in the Democratic primary and 15% in the Republican - who were undecided in the final days of the campaign. [..]

There is another aspect to the Democratic primary findings that is unique and where there is not much precedence in previous presidential elections. It is the group of non-partisans who say they will vote in the Democratic primary. These voters have candidate preferences that counter those of registered Democrats. The relative size of each eventual voting bloc, therefore, will have a major impact on the outcome.

Further, there are unusually large differences in candidate preferences among some of the standard voter sub-groups of each party. To pose just one example from each of the Democratic and Republican contests: (1) the large divisions in support between men and women voters in the Democratic primary, and (2) the big split in preferences between strong conservatives and Republicans who are not strong conservatives. In each of these examples, it would not take large changes in voter turnout proportions from those shown in this report to produce a very different election outcome.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:32 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
nimh wrote:
<represses>

<hoping>

Why repress, Nimh? Listen to your heart. And your brain.

Oh it's what I really thought for sure! But I was jokily invoking Soz's preceding post :wink:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
And the vast majority of Hillary's online supporters are women.

And Obama draws vastly disproportionally support among men. Why must it automatically be reprehensible ID politics if women veer towards Hillary, but not particularly noteworthy that men veer towards Obama? (At least, I dont hear you much about that..)

I bet that there's a hefty chunk of instinctive gender-based response in how men veer away from Hillary as well..
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:33 am
Asherman wrote:
Thank you Nihm for the time and effort you are putting into this thread. Collecting the research polls and doing some basic analysis is helpful in tracking the ever shifting dynamic of public opinion. Your analysis tends to be balanced and objective. I find myself visiting this thread on a regular basis, though I have reservations about popularity polls in general. Thanks again.

Well, thank you! Thank you very much, that was very kind.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:34 am
Actually re: "vastly" it looks like the gender gap is shrinking -- though the tears thing going the wrong way could open it right back up again...
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:38 am
nimh wrote:
The Field press release on this poll is a very good read:


It is. I hadn't read it when I first linked to the story about it, but when Cycloptichorn recently said the thing about 32/31 I went looking for it and then read the whole thing. (It didn't seem to contain stats for the people who have already voted, but then Cycloptichorn cited his source later.)
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:38 am
nimh wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
nimh wrote:
<represses>

<hoping>

Why repress, Nimh? Listen to your heart. And your brain.

Oh it's what I really thought for sure! But I was jokily invoking Soz's preceding post :wink:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
And the vast majority of Hillary's online supporters are women.

And Obama draws vastly disproportionally support among men. Why must it automatically be reprehensible ID politics if women veer towards Hillary, but not particularly noteworthy that men veer towards Obama? (At least, I dont hear you much about that..)

I bet that there's a hefty chunk of instinctive gender-based response in how men veer away from Hillary as well..


It's not reprehensible!

But it is real. That's all.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:43 am
Here's the Gallup poll showing a shrinking gap (one poll but the one I remembered):

http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/020108DemDifferencebyGendergraph1.gif
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:54 am
Two comments when I posted the "tears" thing, now there more than 90... the comments are just about exactly what you'd expect. I thought this was funny though:

Quote:
Not again. Please tell me that Obama rescued some puppies on camera today to counter this tactic.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:54 am
Not trying to make anyone angry; just repeating my personal experience.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 10:59 am
sozobe wrote:
Here's the Gallup poll showing a shrinking gap (one poll but the one I remembered):

Right, and thats interesting that the national Gallup poll shows that -- but I've been posting the gender gap numbers in most of my state polling updates, and man, they are often HUGE. And not particularly decreasing that I've seen.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 11:05 am
Oh, OK. I'd thought that the Gallup results were being seen elsewhere too but definitely defer to you there.
0 Replies
 
 

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