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Get yer polls, bets, numbers & pretty graphs! Elections 2008

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 02:56 pm
This is how Obama's polling has developed since late January (until today) in the two daily tracking polls. Dont mean to rain on the parade - the Gallup surge of yesterday and today is an encouraging sign. But for now all I see is overwhelming stability. Compared to about a month ago, Rasmussen is now exactly where it was then and Gallup is 3-4 percentage points higher.


http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8515/galluprasmusobama6cv3.png
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 03:04 pm
No parade, really -- definitely happy to see the Gallup stuff but the import is limited.

I expect that Obama's numbers will get higher and higher the more it looks like he's the nominee (and Hillary's numbers will get correspondingly lower); and that whenever it becomes official (as in Hillary dropping out) there will be a big jump.

Whether she's been threatened by superdelegates or just has had an attack of conscience, Hillary has seemed to generally (some exceptions) have gone into a mode of staying in but not setting out to maim Obama. She's targeting McCain and Bush a lot more (to the extent of decrying the whole "appeasement" thing, when she's said variations of the same in the past), and leaving Obama pretty much alone. Still talking about health care differences for example but not going for the jugular. A lot more positive stuff about her own plans.

I think this is a good idea (whether coerced or spontaneous), and will make it more likely that when she does eventually drop out -- because MI and FL are resolved, and Obama has been pushed over the top (whether 2025 or another number) with delegates + superdelegates, or whatever -- her supporters will unite behind Obama.

In other words, stop demonizing him, let the process play out, and make it clear that she's lost fair and square.

I really think that Obama -- as a nominee -- will pick up a big chunk of her supporters at that point.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 03:34 pm
sozobe wrote:
Whether she's been threatened by superdelegates or just has had an attack of conscience, Hillary has seemed to generally (some exceptions) have gone into a mode of staying in but not setting out to maim Obama. She's targeting McCain and Bush a lot more (to the extent of decrying the whole "appeasement" thing, when she's said variations of the same in the past), and leaving Obama pretty much alone. Still talking about health care differences for example but not going for the jugular. A lot more positive stuff about her own plans.

I think this is a good idea (whether coerced or spontaneous), and will make it more likely that when she does eventually drop out -- because MI and FL are resolved, and Obama has been pushed over the top (whether 2025 or another number) with delegates + superdelegates, or whatever -- her supporters will unite behind Obama.

True that. I dont think all her supporters, but Hillary does really seem to be making an effort to avoid further intra-party damage, to actively reconcile her supporters with party unity (Bill too!).

Actually, thanks to the way she's been campaigning now I'm beginning to believe that it's actually good that she's staying in till the last primary... It could morph into a way of her bringing her supporters (back) into the overall Democratic campaign effort against McCain. If she'd dropped out after Indiana and North-Carolina, many of her more strident supporters would have just been left to stew and simmer, constructing resentful theories about how she was forced out.

Plus, Obama would still have lost West-Virginia and probably Kentucky, and that would have been a lot more embarassing if Hillary had already bowed out...
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 03:37 pm
One thing I do resent is the way Hillary's now taken up to claiming she's ahead in the popular vote. That's an extremely dubious proposition, Clint Hendler shows in this very thorough, but still easy to read take-down of the trouble with these tallies.

He doesnt stop at Hillary's claim, though, but lays out crisply what all the contested variables are that come into play when tallying the popular vote, and why any number you may see is nothing more than a very rough and disputed estimate.

The commenters add some noteworthy twists and wrinkles as well.

Quote:
The Inestimable Popular Vote Estimates

Fri 2 May 2008
Columbus Journalism Review
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 04:01 pm
nimh wrote:

True that. I dont think all her supporters,


Yeah, I amended it to "a big chunk of..." later in the post, I don't think it'll be every one.

Quote:
Actually, thanks to the way she's been campaigning now I'm beginning to believe that it's actually good that she's staying in till the last primary... It could morph into a way of her bringing her supporters (back) into the overall Democratic campaign effort against McCain. If she'd dropped out after Indiana and North-Carolina, many of her more strident supporters would have just been left to stew and simmer, constructing resentful theories about how she was forced out.

Plus, Obama would still have lost West-Virginia and probably Kentucky, and that would have been a lot more embarassing if Hillary had already bowed out...


Yep, I agree.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 05:58 pm
Need to turn off the computer -- OR polls don't close until something like 11:00 PM EST anyway, so I wasn't going to be able to stay up for that.

Would like to see Obama's Iowa speech, though.

KY looks like it's developing about as expected.

Hoping for good news tomorrow! (Good news = 20 pts or less in KY [Obama loss] and, hmm, 10 pts or more in OR [Obama win].)

G'night!
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 06:54 pm
It looks like it will be about 60-40 in KY. Obama will pick up a dozen or so pledged delegates.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 10:27 pm
More like 67 - 31, rjb. Obama took a beating big time.

Has Clinton lost even close to that bad anywhere? She loses Oregon about as bad as anywhere but it is still just 58 - 42 with around 50% of the vote counted.
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 10:45 pm
okie wrote:
More like 67 - 31, rjb. Obama took a beating big time.

Has Clinton lost even close to that bad anywhere? She loses Oregon about as bad as anywhere but it is still just 58 - 42 with around 50% of the vote counted.


LOL Obama didn't even campaign in KY. You should worry about your boy MCain who still loses 20% to Huckabee. The Dems don't count on the hillbilly vote to win elections, or is that news to you?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2008 04:51 am
Well I didnt stay up for anything this time, and I cant say I regret it, specially considering Oregon still hasnt finished counting apparently. And because there wasnt much of a surprise, of course.

For sure, the beating that Obama took in Kentucky was huge. 35 points! Thats no chickenshit. I mean, everybody knew Hillary was going to win big, Obama didnt even campaign there, demographically it's almost a perfect fit for Hillary. And the polls had indeed predicted a rout, if not quite that big - they'd estimated a Hillary lead of 26 (Suffolk), 31 (SUSA), 36 (ARG), 27 (Research 2000) and 25 (Rasmussen) points. Previous primaries often showed a "winner bonus" compared to the last polls out, so it's no surprise it would be even bigger than that.

But still, it would have been nice if it had been somewhere in the 20-30 point range, closer to 20 than 30 even; Poblano's estimate had provided some hope for that. This is a blowout.

On the other side, Oregon was a very comfortable win indeed for Obama. 16 points (at the moment) -- not bad at all. More comfortable than the polls would have made you think: Survey USA (again) and PPP had indeed had Obama's lead that large, but Suffolk and ARG polls in the last couple of days with an Obama lead of just 4-5 points must have caused some nervosity. So this is very comforting.

The reassurance is even bigger because Obama didnt rely on Portland for his victory. As Nick Beaudrot summarises it at Cogitamus:

Quote:
He won the college towns of Eugene and Corvallis. He won in Bend and Medford, which don't have reputations as liberal strongholds. He won six counties where fewer than 18% of adults hold a college degree. He won non-college voters 51-48. He split white women 50-50. He won voters earning under $50,000 53-46. He won union households by a larger margin than non-union households (which is a first for this campaign, I think). He won voters who named the economy as the most important issue.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2008 05:03 am
okie wrote:
More like 67 - 31, rjb. Obama took a beating big time.

Has Clinton lost even close to that bad anywhere? She loses Oregon about as bad as anywhere but it is still just 58 - 42 with around 50% of the vote counted.

Georgia: Obama 66%, Clinton 31%
Illinois: Obama 65%, Clinton 33%
Virginia: Obama 64%, Clinton 35%

Roxxxanne wrote:
The Dems don't count on the hillbilly vote to win elections, or is that news to you?

Clinton won both Kentucky and West-Virginia against the Republicans in both '92 and '96; Carter won 'em both in '76; LBJ won 'em both of course, and Kennedy won West-Virginia...

The "hillbilly vote" has been part of the coalition of winning Dems since, I dunno, FDR I guess, or further back.

Obama wont get these states, I dont think; which means that he'll need to win some other states that Dems traditionally dont get. Which I think he will be able to do, particularly in the West.

Roxxxanne wrote:
You should worry about your boy MCain who still loses 20% to Huckabee.

Huckabee got 8% in Kentucky, and wasnt on the ballot in Oregon.

Ron Paul did well though - 15% in Oregon and 7% in Kentucky. Thats not all that surprising though - with the race over, only hardcore partisans probably still go out and vote, and Paul's just got a lot of those.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2008 05:12 am
okie wrote:
More like 67 - 31, rjb. Obama took a beating big time.

Has Clinton lost even close to that bad anywhere? She loses Oregon about as bad as anywhere but it is still just 58 - 42 with around 50% of the vote counted.


Idaho: 79% Obama, 17% Clinton

Alaska: 75% Obama, 25% Clinton

Hawaii: 76% Obama, 24% Clinton

Kansas: 74% Obama, 26% Clinton

(Compiled with a combo of this and this -- clicked the "state" tab at the top of the CNN page to get individual state results.)
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2008 05:14 am
Aw, nimh got in there while I was researching -- offsetting examples rather than overlap though.

Too bad that KY was a bigger whomp than hoped, but Oregon is looking good, and the headlines this morning are "within reach" and smiley Obama. So seems fine overall.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2008 05:24 am
Total side note:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/05/20/us/21obama04_650.jpg

Sasha always looks like she's having so much fun!! Malia is always a little more reserved, there because she has to be, ready for it to be over. (I think she's the one who replied, when asked, that she was NOT interested in politics.) Sasha's always looking like she's having a blast. She's the one who was last off the stage at the campaign announcement in Springfield -- kept standing there waving and waving.

I was looking something up yesterday and found this (the image wouldn't convert).

(Yes, she reminds me of sozlet...)
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2008 07:38 am
I'm sure the two will be president and vice president one day. Smile
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2008 07:39 am
Heh...! :-D
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2008 08:19 am
Unfortunately, though, Sozlet is clearly a Republican -- country music loving, Christian, and all. So Sasha would have to switch parties first.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2008 08:22 am
Christian?!

Oh, right, she brushed with that briefly but she's over it.

And she's been volunteering her heart out for Obama remember.

Country music, maybe, but her latest fave is Dire Straits.

Anyway, WAY off-topic! Sorry for starting the digression...
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2008 09:58 am
But what will you do when she becomes a teenage rebel, revolting against her ever so reasonable, sensible, civilised middle-class liberal upbringing, gets a leather-clad biker boyfriend with a Confederacy flag on his motor, starts listening to chatline radio on her MP25 player, and votes for Jenna Bush's daughter for Prez?
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2008 10:22 am
Scream.
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