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Get yer polls, bets, numbers & pretty graphs! Elections 2008

 
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 07:35 am
Wow! I am so not getting any work done today.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 07:52 am
A phucking google bubble! No wonder we haven't seen the sun here in 6 weeks.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 08:35 am
A first sketch using the Google Maps gadget and PhotoShop layers of what the surrounding landscape looks like for the upcoming primaries in IN, KY, WV, PA and NC:


http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5462/googlemapsprimaries1stdcn4.png


Seems to confirms the expectation that things will be very hard for Obama in Kentucky and West Virginia.

(Hillary has been the Queen of the Appalachians in these primaries, I've been meaning to link to a great blog post with lots of maps about that for some time now, will get around to it soon).

Hard in Pennsylvania too.

But although prior results of course provide no guarantee for the future (or what is that in English), the map suggests that he has a shot in Indiana, and especially North Carolina should be more do-able.

Luckily, those two states will be right up next after PA...
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 08:36 am
blatham wrote:
A phucking google bubble! No wonder we haven't seen the sun here in 6 weeks.

Razz
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 08:54 am
Btw, something that struck me just now looking at this composite map is that this Google application has one flaw. Looking at it 'with a naked eye', at least, the size of the bubble appears to represent only the (population) size of the county, rather than the size of the candidate's victory.

I.e.: if Obama or Hillary won a county with a large population even just by 51% to 49%, he or she will get a big blue or yellow Google bubble; even if the difference in votes was just a thousand or two. Whereas when he or she wins a relatively small-sized district with such a blowout margin that it still nets him/her a lead of a couple of thousand votes, it still gets just a small bubble.

For example, see that in Ohio, Cleveland has a significantly larger blue bubble than Columbus or Cincinnatti, whereas in reality the net number of votes that Obama gained there on Hillary was smaller than in Cincinnatti. And the votes he netted over Hillary in Cleveland were totally overshadowed by the huge lead in votes Hillary netted in the counties to the East and South (Youngstown etc.), which have a much smaller population but where Hillary led by 30 points; yet those are represented here by unauspicious little yellow bubbles.

So thats a flaw - but it doesnt make the map any less fascinating, or all that much less telling.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 09:32 am
What do the gamblers/investors say?

Whether the question is if Obama will win the nomination or will be the next President, the brouhaha over Wright over the weekend seems to have cost Obama some 4 points; less than I'd expected.

OTOH, "the speech" seems to have had close to zero effect, re-gaining him about 1 point in the nomination contest and nothing in the general elections match-up, despite heavy trading.

Intrade on Obama's chances of becoming the Democratic nominee:


http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2717/intradeobama4demii7.png


Intrade on Obama's chances of becoming the next US President:


http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4155/intradeobama4prezkk8.png
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nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 10:04 am
Looks like he lost the grandmother demographic.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 10:54 am
If the best speach of a lifetime can't get you a bump in polls.....something's wrong.
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nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:04 am
Quote:
Worsening polls reveal Obama's pastor problem

Democrat Barack Obama suffered in the polls Thursday after a much-acclaimed speech on race that, pundits said, had failed to defuse voters' anger over rage-filled sermons by his former pastor.
Waging an acrimonious battle against Hillary Clinton for the Democrats' White House nomination, Obama confessed to being bruised by the controversy surrounding his longtime Chicago preacher, Reverend Jeremiah Wright.

"In some ways this controversy has actually shaken me up a little bit and gotten me back into remembering that, you know, the odds of me getting elected have always been lower than some of the other conventional candidates," the Illinois senator told CNN in an interview that aired late Wednesday.

"As a practical matter, in terms of how this plays out demographically, I can't tell you. And the speech I gave yesterday (Tuesday) obviously was not crafted to hit a particular demographic," he said.

Obama, the first African-American with a viable shot at the presidency, used his landmark address on race and politics to try to blunt the Wright controversy but also to elevate the debate to a higher plane.

On endless television replays of his sermons, Wright has been shown assailing US and Israeli "terrorism," calling on blacks to sing "God damn America," and alleging that AIDS in Africa was spread by the US government.

Many conservative commentators have fastened on Obama's refusal to disown Wright, whom the senator described as "like family," even as he condemned the pastor's incendiary sermons as "profoundly distorted."

A clutch of polls released since Tuesday pointed to an erosion of Obama's support, with white working-class voters and independents especially alienated. That could hurt him in the Democrats' next primary in Pennsylvania on April 22.

The latest Gallup daily tracking poll found Clinton pulling into a seven-point lead nationally over Obama, 49 percent to 42 percent. It was Clinton's first statistically significant lead over Obama in more than a month.

"The initial indications are that the speech has not halted Clinton's gaining momentum, as she led by a similar margin in Tuesday night's polling as compared to Monday night's polling," Gallup said.

The poll also found Republican nominee-elect John McCain benefiting from the Democratic brawling. The Arizona senator had an edge of 47 percent to 43 percent over Obama, and a lead of 48 percent to 45 over Clinton.

Another survey by Rasmussen gave Obama a favorable rating of 48 percent among voters. Just before the Wright videos emerged last week, Obama's rating was 52 percent.

CBS News poll numbers showed Obama still just ahead of Clinton among Democratic primary voters -- 46 percent to 43. But a month ago, his margin was far wider at 54 percent to 38.

"If the sort of figures we've been seeing in the past 48 hours persist, they will certainly play into the superdelegates' calculation," said Bill Galston, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and former White House advisor.

With Obama only just ahead of Clinton after 46 Democratic contests, the nomination is likely to hinge on nearly 800 party elders known as superdelegates, who are free to vote as conscience dictates.

In public, the Clinton campaign has kept its distance from Obama's pastor problems. But The New York Times reported Thursday that the row was grist for her aides' lobbying of superdelegates.

"Mrs. Clinton's advisers said they had spent recent days making the case to wavering superdelegates that Mr. Obama's association with Mr. Wright would doom their party in the general election," the newspaper said.

The Clinton campaign did not comment on that assertion, but her chief strategist Mark Penn seized on the shifting landscape suggested in the latest polls.

"The more that the voters learn about Barack Obama, the more his ability to beat John McCain is declining compared to Hillary," he said in a campaign memo.

Obama, on CNN, insisted that before the Democratic convention in August, "we're going to have won more states, we will have a higher portion of the popular vote," and be poised to become the standard-bearer against McCain.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080320160022.mr0alglh&show_article=1


Granted, the general election is still seven months away and a lot can and will happen, but with two camps (Clinton's and the Republicans) keeping this story newsworthy, there's no way this can't hurt Obama's campaign (and poll numbers).
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:05 am
maporsche wrote:
If the best speach of a lifetime can't get you a bump in polls.....something's wrong.

Well.. maybe the main takeaway is that most people just dont pay that much attention to these political affairs. A big to-do about Obama's pastor's controversial words today, a big speech by Obama about the subject tomorrow; maybe thats all just stuff that by and large is water off the back of a duck. (Or it's duly noted, but doesnt make people switch camps.)

I mean, look at the Intrade numbers - the whole Wright thing itself also seems to have had little impact on people's expectations of who will win. The March 4 primaries in Ohio and Texas - now those had an impact; this stuff, so far at least, not so much.

But again, I'm also still in wait and see mode - stuff like this usually takes a few days to play out.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:17 am
nimh wrote:
maporsche wrote:
If the best speach of a lifetime can't get you a bump in polls.....something's wrong.

Well.. maybe the main takeaway is that most people just dont pay that much attention to these political affairs. A big to-do about Obama's pastor's controversial words today, a big speech by Obama about the subject tomorrow; maybe thats all just stuff that by and large is water off the back of a duck. (Or it's duly noted, but doesnt make people switch camps.)

I mean, look at the Intrade numbers - the whole Wright thing itself also seems to have had little impact on people's expectations of who will win. The March 4 primaries in Ohio and Texas - now those had an impact; this stuff, so far at least, not so much.

But again, I'm also still in wait and see mode - stuff like this usually takes a few days to play out.


That's b/c those traders bother to do the math. He's still a safe bet for the nomination.

Cycloptichorn
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nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 04:29 pm
Interesting poll here:

http://edisk.fandm.edu/FLI/keystone/pdf/keymar08_1.pdf

1 in 5 Democrats voting for McCain?!
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 09:10 pm
Thanks for the link, Nappy, looks interesting.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 09:52 pm
I've gone for a new look for my comparison of the Gallup and Rasmussen daily tracking polls on the Dem primary, as I found the graph in which I mapped both polls parallel to become confused.

Also, I didnt like that it didnt include a representation of the share of voters who said they didnt know, or preferred a third candidate. Whereas that can be an interesting indicator.

Between March 15 and March 18, for example - the days after the Wright thing first erupted - Obama lost an average of 3 points in the two polls, but Clinton stayed stagnant. It was the "dont know" camp that went up 3. (Thats more reassuring for Obama than if they'd simply crossed over. Although from 14 to 15 March, he did lose an average of 2.5% directly to her.)

So here's the new look: the Gallup and Rasmussen numbers the mere thinnest of lines, and fat lines for the averages of the two:


http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1729/galluprasmusdems6lc6.png


Most striking element: the total lack of overall movement since March 17. On the 18th Obama still dropped a point in both polls (and that would be in interviews up till the evening of the 17th), and then in the last two days nothing. So that suggests that Obama's speech did succeed in stopping the bleeding, but hasnt created a rebound, or not yet.

It's hard to tell for sure though, because Gallup and Rasmussen disagree strikingly about what's been going on the past couple of days. You can see this in these separate graphs for how they have been polling Obama and Hillary:


http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3451/galluprasmusobama2dm1.png


Both polls agreed that Obama slipped significantly around the March 4 primaries - from 50% or close to 43-44%. They both agreed that he recovered afterwards, culminating a few days after the Mississippi primary when he hit 50% in both polls. And both agreed that he slipped right back when right then, the Wright affair erupted.

But then what? Rasmussen had him drop 4 points in a day, but then holding roughly steady at 45-47%. Gallup saw him dropping further, to 42% - his worst score in the Gallup poll since February 8.

And the speech? Rasmussen had him immediately picking up 2 points, then dropping again 1; Gallup only now sees him picking up just 1 point.

There's some cautiously hopeful news in the accompanying description to today's Gallup numbers though:

Quote:
Obama made a major speech on Tuesday addressing the race issue in large part to help move past the controversy. While Tuesday night polling showed no immediate benefit for Obama, the Wednesday results were more favorable to him, as reflected in the slight drop in Clinton's three-day average lead. [..] The tracking data over the next several days will be a crucial indicator of the lasting impact, if any, of the Wright controversy.

Following up on yesterday's description, that means that the day-to-day interviewing has gone as follows:

Interviewing up through Sunday - Hillary leads Obama narrowly
Monday night interviews - Obama drops, Hillary takes a significant lead
Tuesday night interviews - Same numbers as on Monday
Wednesday night interviews - An upturn in Obama's numbers

That means that even if tonight's interviews just got the same results as last night's, we'll see Obama climb back up in the tracking poll a little further again.

The disagreement between the polls is actually larger when it comes to Hillary's numbers:


http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4198/galluprasmusclinton2um4.png


Not for the first time, Gallup has Hillary's numbers higher than Rasmussen - yesterday, Gallup pegged her at 49%, Rasmussen at 42% (the largest 'disagreement' between the polls since Feb 14). The reason: Gallup saw Hillary picking up not just on the 15th, but also in the several days since; Rasmussen did not agree.

The contrast between the two polls is visible most starkly in the familiar graph showing the lead (or deficit) Hillary has on Obama:


http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9854/galluprasmusdemslead9ej7.png


In short: in the aftermath of the Wright revelations, Gallup saw Hillary rebounding to a 7-point lead: the largest she'd had since Feb. 8. Today that's chipped down a little again, hopefully tomorrow some more. But Rasmussen never believed it in the first place: it kept polling a narrow lead for Obama.

The volatility and variance in these numbers, I think, primarily underscore the ambivalence of the Democratic voters, many of whom just still find it hard to choose when asked, even now that most of them have already cast their ballot.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 10:05 pm
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
Interesting poll here:

http://edisk.fandm.edu/FLI/keystone/pdf/keymar08_1.pdf

1 in 5 Democrats voting for McCain?!

And how about the ones that will end up not voting at all. Looking better for John all the time.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:07 pm
Oh, a Rasmussen poll in West Virginia confirms my suspicion that it is solid Hillary country.

Even so, the margins are extremely stark. Especially considering the poll was conducted after Obama's speech.

West Virginia
March 20
Rasmussen

55% Clinton
27% Obama
18% Undecided
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nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:52 pm
okie wrote:
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
Interesting poll here:

http://edisk.fandm.edu/FLI/keystone/pdf/keymar08_1.pdf

1 in 5 Democrats voting for McCain?!

And how about the ones that will end up not voting at all. Looking better for John all the time.


Okie - I was reading comments on a PA board much like A2K (politics forum, etc.) and those people - a mix of both Democrats and Republicans) are furious. They don't like Hillary and are now disgusted with Obama so they're voting for McCain! Hey, we'll take it, right?
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 12:46 pm
Even if I had been inclined to vote for Hillary, after going to her event in Evansville last nite there is no way I would vote for her.

It was so full of platitudes and BS, not to mention that she was over an hour late arriving, that it was the biggest waste of time so far this campaign season, IMHO.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 12:47 pm
You are interesting, mm. I wouldn't have thought you'd even bother to attend a Hillary event. Full of surprises, you are.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 12:51 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
You are interesting, mm. I wouldn't have thought you'd even bother to attend a Hillary event. Full of surprises, you are.


To be honest, my GF wanted to go.
Since I havent made up my mind who I am voting for yet, I will take every oppurtunity I can to hear what the candidates have to say, unfiltered by their spin machines and the press.

She did do one thing that surprised me however.
There was an "overflow room" that held aboout 1500 people, and after her speech she went in there and spent at least an hour, talking to anyone that wanted to say something to her, even me.

I gotta give her credit for that.
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