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What is this about?

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mysteryman
 
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 04:07 pm
I didnt mind when Obama stopped wearing a flag lapel pin, but this is going a little to far, in my opinion.

And I know that this is a conservative website, so I will also post a link to the "Time" magazine picture also...

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/10/20/obama-no-hand-heart-pledge-either-will-msm-notice

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1662530_1446035,00.html

Does Obama not know what simple courtesy is, or does he not care?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,619 • Replies: 26
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 04:17 pm
Who the hell was doing the singing? She needs to be indicted for impersonating a musician!


Link to video of national anthem
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Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 04:24 pm
http://wilsonsalmanac.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/bush_hand_heart-789605.jpg

Look where Mr Bush's heart is.

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/bush_hands1.jpg

Here he was asked if he knew where Iraq was located?

http://www.hairyfishnuts.com/bush-idiot.jpg

Here he was asked to name one U.S state.

http://www.deeshaa.org/wp-content/bush_phone.jpg

Bush ordering fighters to be scrambled on 911.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 05:30 pm
I don't know the circumstances or Senator Obama's reasoning. I imagine it is similar to that of the flag lapel pin if he has a reason.

Personally, I don't think it is a big deal. I've rarely held my hand over my heart for anything patriotically symbolic. It's the non-conformist in me. Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean I have to, and just because I don't doesn't mean the strength of my patriotism is discounted in anyway. I remember getting in trouble in school quite a bit for not holding my hand over my heart or for not reciting the pledge of allegiance aloud like everyone else did when told to do so in homeroom class. I got into similar troubles in Catechism school for not always succumbing to the indoctrination and getting on my knees when someone thought I should.

I think having read books like Animal Farm, 1984 and Brave New World helped reinforce that bit of stubbornness in me as a kid. It kinda backfired as a teenager when the same line was used by parents to counter peer pressure by saying "just because so and so is doing it doesn't mean you have to."
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 06:17 pm
Quite right, Butrflynet. Five years in the US Army, and I don't have to prove anything to anyone.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 08:14 pm
Re: What is this about?
mysteryman wrote:
I didnt mind when Obama stopped wearing a flag lapel pin, but this is going a little to far, in my opinion.

And I know that this is a conservative website, so I will also post a link to the "Time" magazine picture also...

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/10/20/obama-no-hand-heart-pledge-either-will-msm-notice

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1662530_1446035,00.html

Does Obama not know what simple courtesy is, or does he not care?


I tend to think Obama is just demonstating his ambivalence. He projects himself as sort of a new kind of politician, a different sort, and I don't think he is very energized by patriotism. I haven't figured him out yet, I like him better than Hillary in a way, but he really hasn't shown anything at all.

If he has any chance against Hillary, he has totally blown the chance. He isn't running hard against her at all. In the first place, he never has shown anything beyond the speech at the convention, and the media trumped that up as something special when it really wasn't. I was never convinced he was a great speaker and perhaps most people are beginning to finally realize that, and that was supposedly his strong point. If he was so totally great at that, I think his candidacy would have done better, because who really likes Hillary anyway? What has he shown us really, not much.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 08:20 pm
I looked at that picture earlier today.

What is everyone else in the photo looking off to the left of the photo at? they look kinda puzzled.

~~~~

The hand on heart thing kinda grosses me out. It's a national anthem, not a 1960's Motown love song with hand actions. Blechhhh. Show some respect for yourselves and dignity, people.

It's always off-putting to go to a sporting event involving an American team here, and having Americans in the crowd do that. It's as normal as double cheek kisses Confused
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 09:22 pm
ehBeth wrote:

The hand on heart thing kinda grosses me out. It's a national anthem, not a 1960's Motown love song with hand actions. Blechhhh. Show some respect for yourselves and dignity, people.

It's always off-putting to go to a sporting event involving an American team here, and having Americans in the crowd do that. It's as normal as double cheek kisses Confused


I agree ehBeth. It's as idiotic as a child extending in adulthood, "I'm the best, my daddy's the biggest and the toughest, my mom's the best cook in the world".

It's sickening and one has to wonder why so many adults never grow up, never grow out of these infantile behaviors.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 05:38 am
The first picture of Zippo's post reminds me of that idiotic Pepto-Bismol commercial. Maybe George has a belly ache! Laughing
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 08:16 am
bethie
Motown hand gestures...that's hilarious.


So, mysteryman, what of your Dear Leader with his hand there where his hand ought not to be?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 08:25 am
blatham wrote:
bethie
Motown hand gestures...that's hilarious.


So, mysteryman, what of your Dear Leader with his hand there where his hand ought not to be?


Does this address the topic, or just what you'd rather discuss?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 08:42 am
McGentrix wrote:
blatham wrote:
bethie
Motown hand gestures...that's hilarious.


So, mysteryman, what of your Dear Leader with his hand there where his hand ought not to be?


Does this address the topic, or just what you'd rather discuss?


What do you consider is the topic? That it may be impolite to not have one's hand in some designated spot in the presence of a nation's flag?

http://library.thinkquest.org/12663/media/img/salute.jpg
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 09:05 am
Cute.

Still doesn't address the topic.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 09:51 am
McGentrix wrote:
Cute.

Still doesn't address the topic.


What is the topic? MM's original post is this...
Quote:
I didnt mind when Obama stopped wearing a flag lapel pin, but this is going a little to far, in my opinion.

And I know that this is a conservative website, so I will also post a link to the "Time" magazine picture also...

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/10/20/obama-no-hand-heart-pledge-either-will-msm-notice

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1662530_1446035,00.html

Does Obama not know what simple courtesy is, or does he not care?


Is it a question of 'courtesy'? Of insufficiently fervent flag-love? A discussion of whether Obama is less than pragmatic if he fails to pander to nationalists like MM? What is the topic here?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 11:07 am
The reality is that many people do not know about showing respect during the national anthem. Look around the next time you attend a sporting event and you'll see that most people do not place their hands over their hearts. I had a friend ask me why I was doing that during the anthem at a basketball game. He thought you just did it for the pledge.

For all those in the "more patriotic than you" crowd, there's nothing here to get worked up about.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 09:22 pm
mysteryman wrote:
... in my opinion.


Those are the operative words.

Bernie's picture says the rest.

http://library.thinkquest.org/12663/media/img/salute.jpg

The land of freedom. What a laugh! Just what kind of sick brain-washing goes on in US schools?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 04:43 am
Obama Nabbed by the Patriot Police
0 Replies
 
tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 05:59 am
i guess some people care about patriotism, whatever that is.

personally, i only care if a candidate is going to clean up the f**king unconstitutional mess george bush has made of things, and end state-sponsored torture. but as the onion says, we all know what the key issue will be this term. speaking of this term, i don't think obama will be part of it, so the flag is even more of a non-issue to me than it would usually be.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 07:30 pm
Barack was doing what he and many of the rest of us were taught to do when we were growing up. Some are still taught this.

This is from the official Boy Scouts website:

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/about/ideals/promise.html

...And my country: Duty to country starts with being a good citizen. This means caring about the people in our communities and helping those in need. Good citizenship also means obeying the law and using our country's resources carefully. We show love for our country by respecting and saluting the U.S. flag and standing at attention when our national anthem is played.

The Scouts, a patriotic organization if there ever was one, tells their members to stand at attention when the national anthem is played. Nothing about putting one's hand over one's heart. Obama's grandfather served in WWII and so did my father. When I was little, I was taught that boys saluted and girls put their hand over their heart during the Pledge. Everyone stood 'attentively' (facing the flag, no talking) during the national anthem. My dad, being a veteran, saluted the flag as it passed by during the Fourth of July parade. My little brother imitated him even though he wasn't a veteran.

Customs vary based on what part of the country one is in, your age, your teachers' ages, your relatives' ages, and lots of other things.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2007 09:12 am
Butrflynet wrote:
Barack was doing what he and many of the rest of us were taught to do when we were growing up. Some are still taught this.

This is from the official Boy Scouts website:

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/about/ideals/promise.html

...And my country: Duty to country starts with being a good citizen. This means caring about the people in our communities and helping those in need. Good citizenship also means obeying the law and using our country's resources carefully. We show love for our country by respecting and saluting the U.S. flag and standing at attention when our national anthem is played.

The Scouts, a patriotic organization if there ever was one, tells their members to stand at attention when the national anthem is played. Nothing about putting one's hand over one's heart. Obama's grandfather served in WWII and so did my father. When I was little, I was taught that boys saluted and girls put their hand over their heart during the Pledge. Everyone stood 'attentively' (facing the flag, no talking) during the national anthem. My dad, being a veteran, saluted the flag as it passed by during the Fourth of July parade. My little brother imitated him even though he wasn't a veteran.

Customs vary based on what part of the country one is in, your age, your teachers' ages, your relatives' ages, and lots of other things.


You must have missed the red part.

U.S. Code collection(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;
(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
0 Replies
 
 

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