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A curious comparison. Christianity/nazism

 
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 12:01 pm
Ultimately it's not the religion (or anti-religion) of a belief system but the fanaticism generated by its degree of fundamentalism and absolutism that presents its danger.
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 12:05 pm
my understanding of jehovah's witnesses is derived entirely from jehovah's witnesses... although i also listen to ex-jw's.

that's not where the misunderstanding comes from. when i talk to a witness about his own religion, i'm only addressing him with information i received from active members of his religion (unless i say otherwise...)

but, it's a very complex system that i'm not sure all witnesses understand equally. but, last i was told, it's going to be only jw's and people seeking to be jw's, everyone else is destroyed. i'm perfectly happy to hear that's not actually the case. hey, that's progress.

i'd love to hear about revelations 18:4 sometime, whether or not i'm confident you understand it better than everyone else, i *try* to learn what everyone has to say, regardless of agreement.
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 04:57 pm
Quote:
dlowan
However, don't christians believe (by and large) that only christians go to heaven? That's pretty damned exclusive. Don't even poor little unbaptised babies miss out?


There is some debate about this. There is a passage in the bible (don't recall where anymore) where it says something along the lines of 'I have sheep from other pastures', which appears to mean from other religions.

Quote:
and didn't jesus say that only thse who believeth in him shall have eternal life?


Hmmm...I could be wrong, you'd have to ask a someone who still reads the bible, but the only thing I remember is that it is 'whosoever believeth in me shall not perish but have everlasting life' not 'only those who believe....'
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 09:12 pm
tinygiraffe wrote:
i'd love to hear about revelations 18:4 sometime, whether or not i'm confident you understand it better than everyone else, i *try* to learn what everyone has to say, regardless of agreement.
You would first need to understand who or what is represented by the term 'Babylon the Great.'
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tinygiraffe
 
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Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 10:07 pm
neologist wrote:
You would first need to understand who or what is represented by the term 'Babylon the Great.'


okay, if you need to toy with me first. i thought the witnesses said that "babylon the great" referred to the catholic church, or a few countries, possibly including the u.s. and the u.k. right, the details are a bit hazy, but i used to know, i thought. i'd be even more interested to know how this related to the topic, but maybe we'll get there.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 01:11 am
tinygiraffe wrote:
neologist wrote:
You would first need to understand who or what is represented by the term 'Babylon the Great.'


okay, if you need to toy with me first. i thought the witnesses said that "babylon the great" referred to the catholic church, or a few countries, possibly including the u.s. and the u.k. right, the details are a bit hazy, but i used to know, i thought. i'd be even more interested to know how this related to the topic, but maybe we'll get there.
I wonder how long I can beat around this point without actually making it. :wink:
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 01:36 am
dlowan wrote:

However, don't christians believe (by and large) that only christians go to heaven? That's pretty damned exclusive. Don't even poor little unbaptised babies miss out?



They did, up until a couple of months ago. The vatican suddenly decided that they don't miss out now. Go figure.
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 03:16 am
probably for an eternity, neo. if the lesson is "use google to search the watchtower site" then point taken, but that's not very conducive to an exchange of ideas. i assume that either it's personal (in which case i understand,) or that you just like dangling bits of witness esotericism in front of people.

that's your right, of course, it's just odd. of course the fact that you are beating around the point suggests to me that i won't find it by simply googling. obviously this is kingdom hall inner sanctum stuff that we mortals are still preparing for... Razz
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 04:34 am
Wilso wrote:
dlowan wrote:

However, don't christians believe (by and large) that only christians go to heaven? That's pretty damned exclusive. Don't even poor little unbaptised babies miss out?



They did, up until a couple of months ago. The vatican suddenly decided that they don't miss out now. Go figure.



That's right!

So...does this mean a mass of pagans and dead babies is still queuing to exit limbo, or were they all transported to heaven in a puff of smoke?
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 05:27 am
dlowan wrote:
Wilso wrote:
dlowan wrote:

However, don't christians believe (by and large) that only christians go to heaven? That's pretty damned exclusive. Don't even poor little unbaptised babies miss out?



They did, up until a couple of months ago. The vatican suddenly decided that they don't miss out now. Go figure.



That's right!

So...does this mean a mass of pagans and dead babies is still queuing to exit limbo, or were they all transported to heaven in a puff of smoke?


You've hit that dilemna of trying to explain delusion using logic. It's pretty hard.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 09:45 am
tinygiraffe wrote:
probably for an eternity, neo. if the lesson is "use google to search the watchtower site" then point taken, but that's not very conducive to an exchange of ideas. i assume that either it's personal (in which case i understand,) or that you just like dangling bits of witness esotericism in front of people.

that's your right, of course, it's just odd. of course the fact that you are beating around the point suggests to me that i won't find it by simply googling. obviously this is kingdom hall inner sanctum stuff that we mortals are still preparing for... Razz
Well, tiny, of all the new members in this forum, I find you to be one of the most interesting. Somehow, I thought you would enjoy this sort of repartee. I once tried to get a discussion on this topic:
http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1667398#1667398

It just died.
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tinygiraffe
 
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Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 11:21 pm
it's mutual. actually, i do enjoy that a bit, but i figured it was mandatory. like most people, i also enjoy getting what i want, and occasionally ask people why they haven't answered a simple question Smile

of course that doesn't apply here, if religion was simple, there would be no arguments. maybe. hmm, see what i mean? thanks for the link. maybe we'll revive it- of course i'm only assuming that there will be a lot to talk about there.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2007 01:17 am
tinygiraffe wrote:
it's mutual. actually, i do enjoy that a bit, but i figured it was mandatory. like most people, i also enjoy getting what i want, and occasionally ask people why they haven't answered a simple question Smile

of course that doesn't apply here, if religion was simple, there would be no arguments. maybe. hmm, see what i mean? thanks for the link. maybe we'll revive it- of course i'm only assuming that there will be a lot to talk about there.



The problem is, to many devout adherents of religion or political theory, it IS simple.




They scare me.
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2007 01:19 am
everything is the fault of sinners.
gays are sinners.
thus, everything is the fault of gays.


i agree, dlowan.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2007 06:40 am
Does it then follow, since murderers are sinners, that gays are the fault of murderers?
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2007 06:52 am
Everything is the fault of the ones who do not believe wholly in the holy myth.

Joe(that's everyone except for Neo, the only one who has it right.)Nation
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2007 07:35 am
Re: A curious comparison. Christianity/nazism
Cyracuz wrote:
If I were to declare myself a nazi there would be precious few places where I could walk with my head held high. I would be condemned for embracing a beliefsystem that has been responsible for the deaths of millions.

But if I said I was a christian it would be another story, even though more blood has been spilled in the name of christianity than in the name of nazism.

I do not understand why people want to associate their spiritual quest with a movement that has such a bleak history. If a person embraces christianity, doesn't he also condone the witch hunts, the inquisition and all the other horrors contrived in the name of this religion?


Interesting thoughts cyracuz. Would you consider the nazi's spoken of to have been an extremist group?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2007 08:17 am
Joe Nation wrote:
Everything is the fault of the ones who do not believe wholly in the holy myth.

Joe(that's everyone except for Neo, the only one who has it right.)Nation
Belief is not sufficient.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2007 08:19 am
neologist wrote:
Joe Nation wrote:
Everything is the fault of the ones who do not believe wholly in the holy myth.

Joe(that's everyone except for Neo, the only one who has it right.)Nation
Belief is not sufficient.


Hmmm. So the only one who has it right wholly believes in the myth and acts on it.

Joe(seen a bit of that lately, haven't we?)Nation
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2007 09:34 am
Joe Nation wrote:
neologist wrote:
Joe Nation wrote:
Everything is the fault of the ones who do not believe wholly in the holy myth.

Joe(that's everyone except for Neo, the only one who has it right.)Nation
Belief is not sufficient.


Hmmm. So the only one who has it right wholly believes in the myth and acts on it.

Joe(seen a bit of that lately, haven't we?)Nation
Not quite.

There are those who have it right and sin deliberately.
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