House fails to override S-chip veto

woiyo wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
ooohh.... a sucker.... that hurts.

Listen Big Chief you don't know ****.

My father dumped me in a gas station on my 4th birthday and left me to sink or swim with an unstable mother. I collected pop bottles on the street to get enough money for a pot pie so I could eat. I was rejected and called a queer because I didn't want to play sports and was small and was told my mother was a whore because she was a singer. I pulled myself up out of nothing and make a good living doing exactly what I goddam well please and I still think people who need help should get it. Holier than thou dipshits told me what I could and couldn't do all my life and I plan to attend their funerals in a red suit.

tight ass chip on their shoulder neo cons are not the only people who've worked their way up from humble beginnings in this world Cochise. :wink:

So does that make you better than me? Does that say your opinion carries more weight than mine?

You are the sorry a$$ who started with the name calling as you apparnetly refuse to acknowledge you lost the battle for ideas.

Done with you!

No, the fact that I, even with my cynical shitty attitude, have compassion for the less fortunate and believe people should have affordable health care if it's available.... that makes me better than you. Very Happy

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

woiyo wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
ooohh.... a sucker.... that hurts.

Listen Big Chief you don't know ****.

My father dumped me in a gas station on my 4th birthday and left me to sink or swim with an unstable mother. I collected pop bottles on the street to get enough money for a pot pie so I could eat. I was rejected and called a queer because I didn't want to play sports and was small and was told my mother was a whore because she was a singer. I pulled myself up out of nothing and make a good living doing exactly what I goddam well please and I still think people who need help should get it. Holier than thou dipshits told me what I could and couldn't do all my life and I plan to attend their funerals in a red suit.

tight ass chip on their shoulder neo cons are not the only people who've worked their way up from humble beginnings in this world Cochise. :wink:

So does that make you better than me? Does that say your opinion carries more weight than mine?

You are the sorry a$$ who started with the name calling as you apparnetly refuse to acknowledge you lost the battle for ideas.

Done with you!

No, the fact that I, even with my cynical shitty attitude, have compassion for the less fortunate and believe people should have affordable health care if it's available.... that makes me better than you.

Where do you draw your imaginary line between needy and not needy?

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it doesn't matter because wherever I put it it will be wrong as far as you're concerned Laughing

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Frankly, Mac, I'd rather draw the line than trust our low performing Government to draw it for me. Laughing

Republicans or Democrats, equally inept. A pox on both houses.

Halfback

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

it doesn't matter because wherever I put it it will be wrong as far as you're concerned

Nonsense. For example, I will give you my line.

Single - not needy.
Married, no children - not needy
Married, children - $20k/yr
Single Parent, children - $20k/yr

I know there are sad stories of people in dire circumstances out there, but there are also those out there that try to make their jobs taking advantage of the system.

If a single person doesn't want health insurance or is too stupid to get it themselves then why should someone else force it upon them or make someone else pay for insurance for them?

If you are making less then $20k/yr and have a family, I think education would be far more beneficial then health insurance, but I am not without feeling. But, stop having kids you can't support.

Now, where do you draw your line?

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everyone should have access to healthcare at the basic level. If they want to purchase extra and can afford it then let them, but basic healthcare needs to be provided to all.

Perfect example. when I went to eh emergency room I was there for 1 hour 45 minutes... got piss work, blood work, a snoot full of painkillers and a cat scan. They told me I had kidney stones, gave me a scrip for percoset and sent me on my way. The bill was 7000.00 dollars.

If it had happened during regular business hours and I had gone to my doctor, I would have gotten exactly the same treatment service for 150.00, and MAYBE 800 to 1000 for the cat scan.

People are forced to use the emergency room and the hospital inflates the dog **** out of the bill, then people can't pay it. then the hospital uses that as an excuse to inflate the bills even farther and they don't even try to deny it. they offered me a 50% discount if I paid withing 90 days so obviously the service wasn't worth what they are trying to bill for it. Get with the program Mr. Real American, you're paying for it anyway in inflated charges, inflated premiums, inflated drug costs. Problem is even though you're paying for it a lot of people aren't getting it. Stupid.

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Quote:

If a single person doesn't want health insurance or is too stupid to get it themselves then why should someone else force it upon them or make someone else pay for insurance for them?

Because you end up paying either way. These people who don't have health insurance, upon injury or illness, don't just say 'well, I'm screwed,' and sit around in their house to die. They go to the emergency room and get very expensive treatments which they cannot afford to pay; this raises the cost of business for the hospital, which raises the cost of business for the entire health care industry and raises YOUR costs.

Bush has said that 'noone is turned away at the emergency room' as a justification for not providing health care. This is partly true, but it's about the most destructive and debilitating method of health care that our society could possibly choose.

Cycloptichorn

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Plus, you have to speak Spanish to get served.

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cj isn't there a fly somewhere who needs it's wings pulled off?

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No I think I got them all.

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BEAR:

Therein lies the beauty of the free enterprise system. YOU made the choice to go to the emergency room, with full knowledge (one hopes anyway) that there would be a certain economic cost for that action.

As you noted, you could have gone to your doctor the next morning and avoided most of the expense. That choice was yours to make, no one else made it for you.

Your remedy for the matter is to make the Government responsible for your economic choices and make the rest of us pay for it with our taxes.

I now begin to see some of your motivation here. From the sound of it, you either don't have insurance or you have neglected to mention it to lend credence to your case.

In either case, the offered solution is to insure everyone and the cost be damned. I submit that the primary reason we are suddenly highly interested in getting some method of defraying the cost of medical services is because of the rapidly raising costs thereof.

An alternate approach is to take a close look at WHY the cost of medical services has gone completely out of control and attempt some remedy from that approach to lower those costs.

Lowering the costs would be the logical approach and would do much more to alleviate the problem overall than attempting to pass on those costs to the Government, en toto. That will not control costs, the Government is notorious for NOT being able to control costs, on anything.

There are means and methods available to reduce medical costs. All one has to do is make the effort to look. Ya gotta think outside the box.

Halfback

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Halfback, perhaps YOU should be the one thinking outside the box--the box being the whole set of ideological, non-fact-based assumptions, "the free enterprise system is more efficient", "government can't control costs", "the nanny state", yada, yada, yada.

The facts are these:
single-payer (i.e. government-run or government regulated--this takes many forms as Walter Hinteler will be glad to tell you about the German one)health plans consume a much smaller share of GDP than private plans.

Single payer health plans cost far less in absolute terms per capita.

Single payer countries have much better public health stats than the US does. ( We rank pretty close to the bottom of all industrialized nations except in costs, where we're at the top by a wide margin).

Perhaps the biggest ball-breaker is administrative costs (huge salaries for private co. executives, huge advertising costs, huge costs to doctors who have to spend exorbitant amounts of time themselves or hire people to deal with the mutually incompatible terms and demands of a dozen different HMOs and insurance plans). Single-payer costs typically run 5-6% of total. American costs run around 30%).

Industry giveaways written into bills by Republicans. For example in the Medicare Part D prescription coverage, Bush's "centerpiece", companies and government are PROHIBITED from negotiating with drug companies for better prices. The companies can charge whatever they want. Talk about anti-free-enterprise, and that's the Republican and Bush administration position.

Government health plans worldwide have been far more effective at containing costs and providing comprehensive service, than the US hodgepodge has been.

The whole "free enterprise"HMO experiment started in the 90s,, when the Repubs shot down attempts for a sane health policy, has proved that it can't hold costs down.

The "box" should be thrown in the trash, halfback. There is a half century of experience with single-payer systems. They work better, ideology be damned. Real-world experience shows it.

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I'm self insured, so what? I'm going to pay the bill. I pay probably a lot more in taxes than you do, so what's your point? I don't mind part of it, hell a big chunk of it going to national healthcare. Let's use some of the goddam war money for it what say?

And no I couldn't have gone to the doctor the next morning. I was in too much pain. In the real world people are sometimes in so much pain they need immediate relief, and that doesn't make them pussies or drains on the economy. I hope you find yourself in that kind of pain one day and can't get any relief for it and then see what you think. In fact it would give me great pleasure.

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BEAR:

Use all the war money you like. I have not supported the war since the beginning, including Afghanistan. These thoughts have been constant in all my posts, when the occasion arose to make note of it. You bark at wrong dog, there. Confused

You chose the emergency room because you were in pain. Fine. Most of us would have done the same. Therefore you were prepared for the economic costs associated with that choice. Fine again. Question

You claim humanitarian motives, then turn right around and wish pain on me. Are you so blind and one sided that you cannot see the dichotomy in that? Amazing! Razz

It very well may be that you pay more taxes than I. If so, I hope it continues thusly. My efforts will continue to be to keep mine as low as legally possible. Cool

Besides, all this bickering is moot. Government health care is coming, with or without my cautions on the subject. Then we can all enjoy equal treatment, just like the veterans at Walter Reed. :wink:

Halfback

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humanitarian motives apply to humans... I consider people who would deny healthcare to others sub human at best.

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You ARE a case extrodinaire! It's amazing, here you are only some 100 miles away and I can't feel your negative vibes at this distance, knowing full well that I should. MUST be loosing my touch. Shocked

Well, this has been fun, but I do have other things to do other than taking abuse from a bitter wretch such as yourself. Have a good life.

Halfback

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Did I run you off? Good. I thought I was going to have to call Orkin.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

humanitarian motives apply to liberals... I consider people who would deny healthcare to others conservatives at best.

a little fun with quote modification... i don't plan to make a habit of it. actually, i believe there are conservatives that support things like national health and helping other people, but i think they've very confused- much like liberals that vote for people that get in office and vote no differently than the conservatives. a liberal owned by a corporation isn't much better than a conservative owned by one.

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Did Lone Star Madam move to North Carolina?

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I'm proud of bear - he is self insured, will pay at least a portion of the bill (always negotiate - it never hurts), and he pays taxes supporting the long overdue war on terror. Good on ya!

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House fails to override S-chip veto

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