i was just listening to PBS NEWS HOUR and apparently China issued a statement today that the Bush Administration was acting "Hawkish and Dangerous". While i have NO great understanding of N.K. it does seem circumspect that it was Bush that cut off the fuel oil to N.K. some weeks ago which could be seen as an act of aggression following the Bush statement that N.K. was part of the "axis of evil". In addition S.K. stated that they intend to pursue, even more actively, negotions with N.K. obviously disregarding the Bush agenda. As of today the Bush administration does not seem to be able to put forth any kind of coherent agenda.
Why are we in Korea--Now? In the 50s we were there to stop the spread of communism---a noble cause just as it was in Vietnam.
The world now sees communism for just what it is---a joke. There is no a longer a valid reason for us to be in South Korea ---if they don't want us. The guy who just became president campaigned on the promise to get rid of the hated Americans. End of discussion --we're gone---but should we change our minds when they come sniveling to ask us to stay? I don't think so.
Asherman talked about going back to defend the idiots---why? 50 years of communism would be good for them just as it is/was for the Vietnamese----let Jong II have the ungrateful bastards. What the heck is so wrong about abandoning South Korea to the hordes from the North? South Korea is of no strategic value to us.
Oh the world would condemn us for abandoning an ally---who abandoned who? They don't want us. What will happen to the guys in the south----when they find out how bad this joker is they will tear his heart out.
Just another simplistic but realistic assessment of reality by perception.
Er.... pardon my ignorance - but besides deciding they were part of an axis of evil, why did America cut off N. Korea's fuel oil?
Because the fuel oil was being provided to North Korea as part of an agreement Clinton reached with NK. That agreement boiled down to they would abandon their nuclear weapons program and mothball their active reactor and we would provide them with oil to use to generate electricity. (Their original excuse was that they needed nuclear power plants because they couldn't afford oil..).
They admitted that they had continued their weapons program and developed a nuclear weapon. Bush halted oil shipments as a result.
oh.... dear...orouboros-like, in'nit?
Quite! In the grand scheme of things it seems that the inevitable was but delayed a few years.
The bunny's wormish allusion has more than a tinge of substance.
timber
so this mangy cur (N.K) growled at the Bush and the Bush kicked that mangy cur and now that mangy cur has bared its teeth. China, Russia. Japan and S.K. are not going to the batters box in support of the Bush. what to do?
Well, that sounds like yankee agreesion to me!
I think it's a bit quick to say that all of these other nations aren't "going to the batters box". The S.K. Congress is in emergency session right now discussing the issue. The UN today condemed N.K..
IMO, I think Bush ought to throw the monkey onto the back of the UN and let them figure it out. The EU nations in particular have all been quick to denounce the US for our actions in Iraq. Let them deal with N.K.
What to do?????
Pull our troops out and laugh at SK.
dyslexia, the matter is not so simply reduced. Such things never are. DPRK is in violation of agreements to which she is signatory.
This matter will be primary entertainment for The UN once the Iraq issue has been consigned to the historians and the civil engineers.
Japan, China, and ROK may be assumed to be making public pronouncements somewhat at odds with private negotiations each are conducting with DPRK. In much of the world, it is not "Politically Correct" to jump on The American Bandwagon 'til more of The Crowd is singing the same song. A Mid-Eastern ditty is currently playing, an Oriental number is sure to follow. Stay tuned.
timber
It is easier to direct Divisions and Armies than grandchildren.
Aid to the PRK should have been halted long ago when it first became clear that they were in default on the agreements. It wasn't, and the PRK felt that they were ahead of the game by a point or so. Seeing our attention shifted to Southwestern Asia, Kim felt that this was a time when he could up the stakes. Now he will wait a bit to see what our response will be. If we back down, he will up the ante again, and again. Each time he feels he has won, he becomes more confident and willing to threaten again. If we continually retreat in the face of threats by tinhorn dictators, everyother yahoo will be encouraged to follow the same strategy. When we abandon a friend in times of trouble, other friends lose faith in our willingness to remain constant to themselves.
I know that I've argued elsewhere for pragmatic policies, but to abandon an long time friend when they are threatened by a bully seems dishonorable to me. Duty, Honor, Country. A pretty good motto, and a better way to live one's life.
At some point, this must come to an end. Kim and Saddam must eventually be dealt with, and they can only be dealt with using raw muscle. If we had dealt with them years ago, we wouldn't be facing such difficult choices now. If we wait again, the choices will only be harder and the stakes higher.
Mobilize the Marine Division on Okinawa and begin moving them toward the Korean Penninsula. Place all strategic and theater air assets on alert. Increase personnel allotments to the Korean theater, and bring all Korean forces to a higher state of alert. Move naval assets into postion to strike far north of the 39th parallel. Give Kim 72 hours to demonstrate to UN observers the destruction of all nuclear materials we know about. If the PRK fails to meet the ultimatum, direct air strikes against those targets, and then stand ready to repell an attack south of the DMZ.
If the PRK should come south, we will be ready for them and they will badly mauled. Though the North Korean Army is large and known for it's brutal discipline, those troops have been in "garrison" for most of their enlistments. They won't want to give up the comfort and safety of their bunkers for the risk of walking into kill-zones that have been calculated down to the knat's eyebrow. Some of the North Koreans are as hard and bad as any troops in the world, but the bulk of their forces are just as green as any other unblooded troops. Though they have been preparing for an invasion of the South for fifty years, the actual amount of real field training hasn't been that great. When the guns begin to roar, I doubt that the North Korean forces will be any more robust than the Republican Guard. Tough, but not tough enough.
An attack southward towards Seoul would trigger amphbious landings well above the DMZ, and should encounter relatively light resistence. The objective should be Pong Yang and other urban centers. The hardened line along the DMZ would then be cut off from its supplylines, while held in check to the south. The Korean War would be finally ended after fifty years screwing around trying to negotiate with people who are a real pain in the butt.
perception wrote:What to do?????
Pull our troops out and laugh at SK.
The reality of the economic intertwining of the Developed World renders this impossible, therefore moot. Ain't gonna happen.
timber
Today's news accounts sound like they are leaning fishin's way. The UN has taken up the matter, and several countries (forget the list of 4 or 5) are calling on NK to behave. We are not alone in this one....for now.
What happens, just as it did 50 years ago, when the planners and strategic thinkers look past that plan and see China coming to the defense of N.K.? China seems to have a bit of an itchy trigger finger as of late too.
IMO, the best the US can hope for in the forseeable future is the current stalemate between North and South Korea.
fishin', for reasons of economic self interest, the Chinese will, in my opinion, provide only vocal support to DPRK, and scant of that.
Timber
Asherman
Stand ready to repel an attack on the south---how the heck do you repel the attack of a million man army with even smart bombs and 37,000 well trained troops?
Please be realistic
I think the last time we did something like that, we called it "Vietnam".
