The US, The UN and Iraq

Don't care if you were goaded, or not. We are all deeply upset by what is confronting us. I posted on another forum that I was "sick in my soul".

It should behoove us to try to avoid intemperate remarks, if and when we can. Just adds to the burden, whatever one's views, we are all walking around with.

I couldn't agree more sumac, at times it feels like wading through cess pools full of mines within this thread - never knowing when one will go off and at whom!

Well, Boss, it is only folk wisdom, of course, but i've heard all my life that one should consider the the source; in consideration of the source, in this case Burke, i long ago considered the substance of the quote. "All that is necessary for evil to prosper is that good men do nothing." I would draw a parallel with the corruption of biblical scripture. One can define evil as one will, and one can define to whom one turns to find the good men to combat evil in a similarly subjective manner. This was quoted to me by a woman i once knew, who was an evangelical christian who believed in interferring with people's lives if one thought what they did was evil. In her case, this extended to harrassing on the street the employees and clients of abortion clinics. I've heard that quote on the lips of many mealy-mouthed, self-serving demagogue-wannabes as well (in which category i do not place that christian woman, although i considered her terribly misguided). My point about the quote is that it is sufficiently smug to be offensive to those, who, by implication, are either not good men, or are failing in their duty to fight evil. It is sufficiently vague to be open to interpretation by almost anyone to justify almost anything. It could easily have been used by Hitler at the time of the Reichstag fire to justify a whole host of actions which we would consider evil. I believe it necessary for me, and i would hope that we all would, consider the substance of such quotes and the sources as well. When Samuel Johnson sneered at Americans demanding their independence, while keeping slaves, he ignored that England introduced slavery into the colonies, and that England continued to keep slaves in the West Indies--slaves living in far worse conditions than those in America at that time, and as bad as or worse than the slaves exploited by "King Cotton" in Alabama and Mississippi in the succeeding century. Your point about Polonius is well taken, but even that is open to unfortunate interpretation. When he advises " . . . neither a borrower nor a lender be, for a loan soon loses itself as well as a friend . . . " it could be contended that he is being percipient, but to adhere rigidly to such a practice might lose a friend as well, a friend who merits one's help, and can be trusted. How much better to do one's own thinking about weighty matters, and to attempt to clearly state one's beliefs, unambiguously, than to rely upon someone else's conveniently interpretable quote, unexamined.

Sure you consider the source, but hey, even a clock that's stopped is right twice a day.

Heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee

Sumac wrote:

"Don't care if you were goaded, or not".

You see folks ----- this is the kind of self serving logic that is so evident on this forum.

"I don't care about your feelings but mine are off limits"

That's for damn sure! c.i.

For all those who are "drowning" in their own anguish over the"evil" that is in the white house. Let me predict this----There will be some "serious" anguish if Saddam or Kim Jong IL give or sell small pox, anthrax, sarin chemical or any other death toxin to members of any terrorist organization to unleash on the world. Let me also remind you----the US is not the only target. It is much more likely they will attack "soft" targets around the world even in countries that are so smug about their hatred for the US.

Of course, we can all thank Rumsfeld for any biological agents Saddam passes around to his putative terrorist buddies . . . one of those "good men" upon whom we will rely to assure that evil does not prosper . . .

perc, We are not "drowning in our anguish." We see no eminent threat from Saddam or Kim at this time, and it would be wrong to do a preemptive strike on Iraq that will kill innocent Iraqis. If and when Saddam or Kim aggressively strikes us or our national security, we can then justify a war - not before. I have great faith in our military to do the job necessary to defend our country. c.i.

Hmmm--It would appear that the "religious right" is not the only group that displays "self righteous" rhetoric.

How many times will people grasp at the same straws. If I sell Timber a 2X4 and 20 years later he hits somebody over the head with it will you pretend that I am responsible?

But lets assume the worst. Lets assume that at that time the US knew Saddam would use the samples to make biological weapons and that we assumed he was going to use them against Iran, who was then our mutual enemy. Assuming all of that was true I would say that we used very bad judgement and did a bad thing, a wrong thing.

So, what would you have us do today? Leave the weapons in his hands or clean up our mess? I'm for the latter.

C.I.

Then you're one of those that espouse the logic that we must live with the fear that they will attack---- we just don't know when???

That to me is not an option.

2x4's and Ebola and Anthrax being of equal potency, of course!

Seriously, Tres, I think in a case of that kind, we stay out of it and support the UN in getting that stuff outta there and destroying it.

And if the UN does exactly what it has done to date. . . ?

Then we are safe!

PARIS (Reuters) - Leaders of dozens of African nations, including three on the U.N. Security Council, backed France's push Thursday for more time for U.N. weapons inspections in Iraq.

"There is an alternative to war," representatives of the 52 African nations at the summit said in a joint statement that echoed France's views.

setanta, I really liked your long post about my comment re Burke. Excellent.