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My Favorite "Anti-Semite"

 
 
Zippo
 
Reply Thu 4 Oct, 2007 01:56 pm
My Favorite "Anti-Semite"

http://www.joinafrica.com/africa_of_the_week/desmond_tutu.jpg

The "anti-Semitic" views Tutu had expressed were in his April 2002 speech "Occupation is Oppression" in which he likened the occupation regime in the West Bank, based on his personal experience of it, to what he had experienced as a black person in South Africa. He recalled the role of Jews in South Africa in the struggle to end apartheid, and expressed his solidarity with us through our centuries of suffering. But then turning to the suffering inflicted on the Palestinians, he issued an important challenge, one that might just as well have been uttered by a Jewish biblical prophet:



"My heart aches. I say, why are our memories so short? Have our Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they forgotten the collective punishment, the home demolitions, in their own history so soon? Have they turned their backs on their profound and noble religious traditions? Have they forgotten that God cares deeply about the downtrodden?

"Israel will never get true security and safety through oppressing another people. A true peace can ultimately be built only on justice. We condemn the violence of suicide bombers, and we condemn the corruption of young minds taught hatred; but we also condemn the violence of military incursions in the occupied lands, and the inhumanity that won't let ambulances reach the injured.

"The military action of recent days, I predict with certainty, will not provide the security and peace Israelis want; it will only intensify the hatred.

"Israel has three options: revert to the previous stalemated situation; exterminate all Palestinians; or " and I hope this will be the road taken " to strive for peace based on justice, based on withdrawal from all the occupied territories, and the establishment of a viable Palestinian state on those territories side by side with Israel, both with secure borders.

"We in South Africa had a relatively peaceful transition. If our madness could end as it did, it must be possible to do the same everywhere else in the world. South Africa is a beacon of hope for the rest of the world. If peace could come to South Africa, surely it can come to the Holy Land." -- Desmond Tutu


http://tonykaron.com/2007/10/03/my-favorite-anti-semite/

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Is Desmond Tutu an anti-semitie?
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Oct, 2007 04:18 pm
This comparison is both ridiculous and offensive. You are nothing like Bishop Tutu.

There is a major difference between legitimate criticism of the policies of the government of Israel-- and true Antisemitism involving a hatred of Jews.

Desmond Tutu is an example of the former. He is sympathizing with the Palestinian people, and critizing policies, without demonizing or attacking people due to their ethnicity.

The crap you spew is the opposite. You attack Jews based on their ethnicity. You imagine Jewish plots and look for evidence of sinister influence in any Jewish name or symbol.

You don't see Bishop Tutu spouting hate-inspired conspiracy theories, or counting the number of Jews in the US government.

This is a ridiculous claim.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 12:59 am
ebrown_p wrote:
This comparison is both ridiculous and offensive. You are nothing like Bishop Tutu.

There is a major difference between legitimate criticism of the policies of the government of Israel-- and true Antisemitism involving a hatred of Jews.

Desmond Tutu is an example of the former. He is sympathizing with the Palestinian people, and critizing policies, without demonizing or attacking people due to their ethnicity.

The crap you spew is the opposite. You attack Jews based on their ethnicity. You imagine Jewish plots and look for evidence of sinister influence in any Jewish name or symbol.

You don't see Bishop Tutu spouting hate-inspired conspiracy theories, or counting the number of Jews in the US government.

This is a ridiculous claim.


WORD.
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 02:55 am
ebrown_p wrote:
This comparison is both ridiculous and offensive. You are nothing like Bishop Tutu.

There is a major difference between legitimate criticism of the policies of the government of Israel-- and true Antisemitism involving a hatred of Jews.

Desmond Tutu is an example of the former. He is sympathizing with the Palestinian people, and critizing policies, without demonizing or attacking people due to their ethnicity.

The crap you spew is the opposite. You attack Jews based on their ethnicity. You imagine Jewish plots and look for evidence of sinister influence in any Jewish name or symbol.

You don't see Bishop Tutu spouting hate-inspired conspiracy theories, or counting the number of Jews in the US government.

This is a ridiculous claim.


This is fantastic...great post. I was hoping for this. You fell right into my trap. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

It is not I who claimed Desmond Tutu to be an anti-semite. Thank you again, for not reading the article from the link provided. This claim was made by....wait for it....: Jews! - Now, try getting out of this one... ha ha

Nobel Laureate Desmond Tutu Banned From Campus Over Israel Criticism ( http://www.alternet.org/audits/64314/ )

Quote:
"Minneapolis/St.Paul's City Pages just reported that members of the St Thomas Justice and Peace Studies program were thrilled when Bishop Tutu agreed to speak at the University" but administrators did a scientific survey of the Jews of Minneapolis, which included querying exactly one spokesperson for Minnesota's Jewish Community Relations Council and several rabbis who taught in a University program" and concluded that Tutu is bad for the Jews and should therefore be barred from campus."
0 Replies
 
tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 07:53 am
that's so un-israeli...
israel: take a page out of america's book: occupation is LIBERATION!

you can support a jewish state all you like, but unless you also support every last detail of what the israeli government does in the name of defense, you're an anti-semite. i know, it's amazing to me as well, but that's just how it is.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 08:38 am
Zippo
How many A2Kers are members of the "Israel can do no wrong" club?

BBB
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 09:39 am
Re: that's so un-israeli...
ebrown_p, will not have the balls to criticize Jewish people. (gods chosen)

America has millions of "Israel can do no wrong" club members. Majority of them support the bombing of Iran, ethnic cleansing of palestinians and continuous occupation of Iraq. All for Israel's security. Bush will send our last soldier to fight and die for Israel.

Bush Says He Will Defend 'Our' Ally Israel

I don't have a problem of Bush wanting to defend Israel. Here's your rifle, Dubya, and here is your partachute.

But you and I both know that Dubya doesn't mean "he" will defend Israel, he means he will force OUR CHILDREN to go and die defending Israel, even in wars that Israel starts.

And that I have a problem with.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 12:11 pm
Re: that's so un-israeli...
Zippo wrote:
ebrown_p, will not have the balls to criticize Jewish people. (gods chosen)

America has millions of "Israel can do no wrong" club members. Majority of them support the bombing of Iran, ethnic cleansing of palestinians and continuous occupation of Iraq. All for Israel's security. Bush will send our last soldier to fight and die for Israel.

Bush Says He Will Defend 'Our' Ally Israel

I don't have a problem of Bush wanting to defend Israel. Here's your rifle, Dubya, and here is your partachute.

But you and I both know that Dubya doesn't mean "he" will defend Israel, he means he will force OUR CHILDREN to go and die defending Israel, even in wars that Israel starts.

And that I have a problem with.


What's odd about your contention is Israel has fought many wars all by themselves? Why now do you envision the U.S. being asked to fight in an Israeli war? Don't say Iraq is an Israeli war. I think that's a neoconservative war for maintaining the U.S. hegemony in the Middle East.

Unfortunately, I believe many people might see Israel under every rock, the same way Holocaust survivors might see a Nazi under every rock.

Why was the U.S. in WWII, Korea, Vietnam? Don't tell me Israel.

While there are people in the Israel Can Do No Wrong Club, why are there members in the Zionists are Manipulating Us club?

I believe, some are old fashioned anti-Semites; some are old fashioned Christians (Jews should wander the Earth for all time for rejecting Christ); some are concerned about anti-Christian feelings towards Christian communities in Moslem countries; some want to ingratiate their countries to the Arab oil producing countries; some feel the Palestinians are the underdogs, and side with the underdogs; some think it's just ever so fashionable to side with people whose skins are not Snow White; some feel that much of the pro-Israel Christian feelings come from the Evangelicals that are anthema to some other "Christians" (spitework perhaps); and some have a foreboding that one day all the U.S. Jews could go to Israel and then it might be hard to get a dental appointment.

Or, they can have other reasons. But, I do hope this concern about Zionism and the U.S. becomes less intrusive to your day's enjoyment.

P.S.: If you are concerned about the resumption of a draft, I personally think that will occur, and not because of Israel, but because of a much larger threat on the horizon in the later half of the 21st century.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 12:21 pm
'Neocon' pretty much means 'doing what's in Israel's interests.'

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 03:03 pm
How silly. There is no trap-- and you refuse to understand my point (or perhaps are incapable of understanding).

There is a difference between criticizing Israel (which is a legitimate intellectual point to take) and anti-semitism (which is extremist, dangerous, morally reprehensible, and idiotic).

The fact that some Jews (and it always Jews with you) make the same foolish mistake that you do (confusing criticism of Israel with bigotry) is irrelevant.

You spout hateful bigotry. You swallow conspiracy theories about fantastic evil Jewish plots. You count Jews in government and pretend it means something. To you everything Jewish is evil.

Compare this to people I respect -- Jimmy Carter and Desmond Tutu among them who are critical of Israel... not because they are the "hated" Jews, but because of specific policies. Neither of these men believe Jews are evil. Neither of these men deny the Holocaust. Neither of these mens count Jews in government to look for conspiracy theories.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 03:06 pm
The irony here is the people Foofie refers to as the "Israel can do no wrong" club, and Zippo are on the same side.

They are both slandering good men (like Carter and Tutu) by deliberately confusing thoughtful criticism of Israels policy, with the hateful bigotry coming from the "Jews are evil conspirators" club.
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 03:16 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
The fact that some Jews (and it always Jews with you) make the same foolish mistake that you do (confusing criticism of Israel with bigotry) is irrelevant.


Translation: Jewish criticism is irrelevant.

I was right when i said, he'd not have the balls to criticize Jewish people. I don't blame ebrown_p, he'd lose a lot of friends.
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 03:21 pm
Re: that's so un-israeli...
Foofie wrote:
Zippo wrote:
ebrown_p, will not have the balls to criticize Jewish people. (gods chosen)

America has millions of "Israel can do no wrong" club members. Majority of them support the bombing of Iran, ethnic cleansing of palestinians and continuous occupation of Iraq. All for Israel's security. Bush will send our last soldier to fight and die for Israel.

Bush Says He Will Defend 'Our' Ally Israel

I don't have a problem of Bush wanting to defend Israel. Here's your rifle, Dubya, and here is your partachute.

But you and I both know that Dubya doesn't mean "he" will defend Israel, he means he will force OUR CHILDREN to go and die defending Israel, even in wars that Israel starts.

And that I have a problem with.


What's odd about your contention is Israel has fought many wars all by themselves? Why now do you envision the U.S. being asked to fight in an Israeli war? Don't say Iraq is an Israeli war. I think that's a neoconservative war for maintaining the U.S. hegemony in the Middle East.

Unfortunately, I believe many people might see Israel under every rock, the same way Holocaust survivors might see a Nazi under every rock.

Why was the U.S. in WWII, Korea, Vietnam? Don't tell me Israel.

While there are people in the Israel Can Do No Wrong Club, why are there members in the Zionists are Manipulating Us club?

I believe, some are old fashioned anti-Semites; some are old fashioned Christians (Jews should wander the Earth for all time for rejecting Christ); some are concerned about anti-Christian feelings towards Christian communities in Moslem countries; some want to ingratiate their countries to the Arab oil producing countries; some feel the Palestinians are the underdogs, and side with the underdogs; some think it's just ever so fashionable to side with people whose skins are not Snow White; some feel that much of the pro-Israel Christian feelings come from the Evangelicals that are anthema to some other "Christians" (spitework perhaps); and some have a foreboding that one day all the U.S. Jews could go to Israel and then it might be hard to get a dental appointment.

Or, they can have other reasons. But, I do hope this concern about Zionism and the U.S. becomes less intrusive to your day's enjoyment.

P.S.: If you are concerned about the resumption of a draft, I personally think that will occur, and not because of Israel, but because of a much larger threat on the horizon in the later half of the 21st century.


Ahhh, playing the old *Holocaust* and *Nazi* cards... You instantly lose credibility.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 03:26 pm
Foofie, I hate to point it out, but the US couldn't have been in WW2 b/c of Israel, as Israel didn't exist at that time. So I doubt many people will be advancing that argument here.

I'm non-religious; I don't have anything for or against anyone from any religion. That being said, from a purely logical standpoint, there have not been any good explanations forwarded as to why the US gives more aid to one tiny country in the world then the rest of them combined.

Logically, I know of no objective reasons for our support of Israel other then the powerful Jewish lobby here in America. It is folly and false to claim that this lobby doesn't exist, or that it doesn't have anything to do with our support of this country.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 03:35 pm
Foofie wrote:
Don't say Iraq is an Israeli war


You are wrong. Majority of the 'architects of the Iraq war' are Israeli neo-cons:

http://thinkprogress.org/the-architects-where-are-they-now/

Iraq: A War For Israel

http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/iraqwar.shtml

Quote:
In mid-1996, a policy paper prepared for then-Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu outlined a grand strategy for Israel in the Middle East. Entitled "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm," it was written under the auspices of an Israeli think tank, the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies. Specifically, it called for an "effort [that] can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right..." [8]
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 03:40 pm
Re: Zippo
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
How many A2Kers are members of the "Israel can do no wrong" club?

BBB



None! How many are members of the "Pals Can Do No Wrong" club?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 03:47 pm
Zip, Tuto, et al., are absolutely entitled to be wrong. I wonder how they feel about the Pal mistreatment of Christians, Jews, women, gays, et al..

All these people, including 1.3 M Arabs, live in peace in Israel. On the other hand, the Pals will kill any Jew, whether a child, old person, or woman, they can get their hands on. The Pals hate our guts and cheered on 9/11.
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 04:00 pm
Advocate wrote:
Zip, Tuto, et al., are absolutely entitled to be wrong...


ebrown_p disagrees with your opinion. Can you fight it out with him?

Quote:
...On the other hand, the Pals will kill any Jew


If someone broke into your house, killed your family and possessed your property/land, wouldn't you do the same?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 04:11 pm
Zippo wrote:
Advocate wrote:
Zip, Tuto, et al., are absolutely entitled to be wrong...


ebrown_p disagrees with your opinion. Can you fight it out with him?

Quote:
...On the other hand, the Pals will kill any Jew


If someone broke into your house, killed your family and possessed your property/land, wouldn't you do the same?



The Israelis hope not to have to do this. That's the reason for the fence.
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 04:18 pm
Advocate wrote:
Zippo wrote:
Advocate wrote:
Zip, Tuto, et al., are absolutely entitled to be wrong...


ebrown_p disagrees with your opinion. Can you fight it out with him?

Quote:
...On the other hand, the Pals will kill any Jew


If someone broke into your house, killed your family and possessed your property/land, wouldn't you do the same?



The Israelis hope not to have to do this. That's the reason for the fence.


Here is the final plan of their fence

http://soundpolitics.com/AuthCartoon.gif
0 Replies
 
 

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