"What is truth?" (John 18:38)

rosborne979 wrote:

IFeelFree wrote:
By that criterion, anything I firmly believe, is absolute. If I feared for my life from evil spirits (just as I fear for my life from the moving bus), does that make the existence of evil spirits absolutely true?

One will really kill ya, the other won't. Your logic is faulty.

No, your logic is faulty. You're mistaking certainty with absoluteness. I may be certain of many things that are actually false. In this case, for example, maybe the truck will veer away at the last moment. (This actually happened to me once.) The belief in the certainty or "absoluteness" of death from the truck is false. It is not absolute. Highly likely doesn't mean the same as absolute. I can't believe I have to explain this to you. Are you just being obstinate?

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IFeelFree wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
IFeelFree wrote:
By that criterion, anything I firmly believe, is absolute. If I feared for my life from evil spirits (just as I fear for my life from the moving bus), does that make the existence of evil spirits absolutely true?

One will really kill ya, the other won't. Your logic is faulty.

No, your logic is faulty. You're mistaking certainty with absoluteness. I may be certain of many things that are actually false. In this case, for example, maybe the truck will veer away at the last moment. (This actually happened to me once.) The belief in the certainty or "absoluteness" of death from the truck is false. It is not absolute. Highly likely doesn't mean the same as absolute. I can't believe I have to explain this to you. Are you just being obstinate?

The fact that the bus might veer off is irrelevant to the point. Perhaps we're trying to make different points here.

I don't even remember what my original point was, the whole subject seemed so pedantic.

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"Absolute" means different things to different people; an 'Absolute' fact (to me) is that there IS a God- it's finding out the details that's difficult in view of the endless religions and philosophies!

When a plant is viewed under an electron microscope, for example, scientists do NOT see so many cells that just HAPPEN, in some cases, to line up with other cells that just happen to be the type of cells that can work with them to carry out elaborate functions that took CENTURIES for man to figure out!
They see endless cells of every type ALL linked up in ELABORATE networks and systems carrying out MANY elaborate functions!

Is that an "Absolute" fact of Intelligent Design? To any HONEST person, it would be- but many fool themselves- and others!

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Quote-"Absolute" means different things to different people; an 'Absolute' fact (to me) is that there IS a God- it's finding out the details that's difficult in view of the endless religions and philosophies! - unquote.

Ok, so you now believe there is a god by 'absolute- whatever?'

Now prove there is... by the same method that that made you "believe"

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NOTHING can be "proven" to you at all- unless you CHOOSE to accept facts!
Such as that ELABORATE DESIGN & ORDER in the example of cells in living things.

ANYTHING can- and usually IS ridiculed- wether it be fact or not, as is done on these boards...

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rosborne979 wrote:

. . . the whole subject seemed so pedantic.

The reason for posing the question was not to arrive at an answer but to focus on epistemological standards.

TCR, in another thread, made a long dissertation which included this relevant statement:

TheCorrectResponse wrote:

There are things that are unknown and forever unknowable to science. With science you can make assumptions, create a hypothesis based on these assumptions, and test the hypothesis against observations. If after these tests the hypothesis can be shown to consistently make useful predictions that cannot be disproved the hypothesis stands as proven. It is always open to new tests and ultimately being disproved. But until then, it is considered proven.

Source:
http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2888637#2888637

Similar standards should be applied to one's faith.

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I understand that- however, to sacrifice your life on a Hypothesis seems a litlle [moronic, stupid, dumd, brainless,ridiculous; choose one of these or something similar] to ME, at least!

The existance of God- and His qualities- on which to base one's faith, do not fit into such a mode.

Religions do!

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I drive across the Tacoma Narrows Bridge based on faith in science and technology. My spiritual faith is similar. That's all I said.

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Re: "What is truth?" (John 18:38)

neologist wrote:

An interesting conversation reportedly took place between Governor Pilate and Jesus Christ, recorded at John chapter 18, vss. 37, 38: Jesus said "For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice." 38 Pilate said to him: "What is truth?"
Quote:

Jesus spoke of "the truth," as in things that are true, factual, real. Pilate gave a typical philosophical response, "What is truth." The two were obviously not on the same wavelength. These two opposing viewpoints have survived to this day.

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IFeelFree wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
IFeelFree wrote:
By that criterion, anything I firmly believe, is absolute. If I feared for my life from evil spirits (just as I fear for my life from the moving bus), does that make the existence of evil spirits absolutely true?

One will really kill ya, the other won't. Your logic is faulty.

No, your logic is faulty. You're mistaking certainty with absoluteness. I may be certain of many things that are actually false. In this case, for example, maybe the truck will veer away at the last moment. (This actually happened to me once.) The belief in the certainty or "absoluteness" of death from the truck is false. It is not absolute. Highly likely doesn't mean the same as absolute. I can't believe I have to explain this to you. Are you just being obstinate?

I remember a quote that went something like: "The only absolute in the universe is that Engineers love to change things."

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neologist wrote:

I drive across the Tacoma Narrows Bridge based on faith in science and technology. My spiritual faith is similar. That's all I said.

I have reached a point in my life where I neither wish to travel over nor under bridges. However, out of necessity, I regularly have to do so, whether I like it or not. Spiritual "truth" should be far more reliable. And, I expect it to hold up, no matter what loads or stresses are placed upon it.

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Quote- I have reached a point in my life where I neither wish to travel over nor under bridges. However, out of necessity, I regularly have to do so, whether I like it or not. Spiritual "truth" should be far more reliable. And, I expect it to hold up, no matter what loads or stresses are placed upon it.-Unquote

I reached a point in my life where I go where I want, when I want by, by whatever means that are available, many, many years ago. I also have never had the need to rely on any one or any thing to 'hold up'. Have read many books of fiction the worst being the bible. Have never prayed to any one or any thing. I think at my age I'm in a much better position than you.... as I have no fears, not even death ( i have little time left on this earth ) am extremely happy and laugh, reading the about the people who allow themselves to be driven to such fear and trepidation for the mythical and trivial.

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anton bonnier wrote:

Quote- I have reached a point in my life where I neither wish to travel over nor under bridges. However, out of necessity, I regularly have to do so, whether I like it or not. Spiritual "truth" should be far more reliable. And, I expect it to hold up, no matter what loads or stresses are placed upon it.-Unquote

I reached a point in my life where I go where I want, when I want by, by whatever means that are available, many, many years ago. I also have never had the need to rely on any one or any thing to 'hold up'. Have read many books of fiction the worst being the bible. Have never prayed to any one or any thing. I think at my age I'm in a much better position than you.... as I have no fears, not even death ( i have little time left on this earth ) am extremely happy and laugh, reading about the people who allow themselves to be driven to such fear and trepidation for the mythical and trivial.

Laughter is GOOD. Where you headed after you leave the planet?

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Oh, I thought he was serious.

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Quote-Laughter is GOOD. Where you headed after you leave the planet?-unquote.

Same dam place as you hankarin... whether you like it or not... a bit of compost that might be of use to mother earth. Unlike yourself who is terrified that you may not have a life after death so you do everything in your power to make sure you do... what a bloody waste of time and effort, A lifetime of living in fear. I know you are "happy?" doing it and can give me a huge list of mythical reason that I'm wrong, but I don't care a dam, unlike you.

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anton bonnier wrote:

Quote-Laughter is GOOD. Where you headed after you leave the planet?-unquote.

Same dam place as you hankarin... whether you like it or not... a bit of compost that might be of use to mother earth. Unlike yourself who is terrified that you may not have a life after death so you do everything in your power to make sure you do... what a bloody waste of time and effort, A lifetime of living in fear. I know you are "happy?" doing it and can give me a huge list of mythical reason that I'm wrong, but I don't care a dam, unlike you.

I'm not leaving the planet, but I am looking forward to seeing some good dam builders (beavers) near my home in paradise someday. I like the way they can build a dam.

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So, getting back to truth:

What might Jesus have meant when he used the word 'truth?'

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neologist wrote:

So, getting back to truth:

What might Jesus have meant when he used the word 'truth?'

I offer this.. it refers to the life of Jesus and to his teachings. (For those who hold truth in the bible) He would say to those on His right, Come, you blessed of My children, inherit the kingdom which I have had prepared for you.
For I was hungry and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me to drink; I was homeless, and you found me shelter.
I was naked and you clothed me; I was ill and you visited me; I was in prison and you brought me comfort.
And they will say to me, Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you? Or thirsty, and give you drink? And when did we see you homeless and find you shelter? Or naked, and clothe you? And when did we see you ill, or in prison, and comfort you?
He said, Verily, verily, I say unto you-- inasmuch as you have done it to the least of these, my brethren, so have you done it to me.

"What is truth?" (John 18:38)

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