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Should Ahmadinejad be Allowed to Speak at Columbia?

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 11:35 am
blatham wrote:
an article praising that nutjob from Iran


I am disturbed by what appears to be your support of Ahmadinejad in the face of your ever present criticism of Bush.

I guess you just like him better? Does he seem to be a better person to you? What is it about this guy that would lead you to post yet another Salon.com article praising the virtues of a man like Ahmadinejad?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 11:40 am
CoastalRat wrote:
So now someone with a different opinion is an idiot right-winger. And why? Simply because we believe that an American institution should not invite the president of another country to speak even while that country is sending material into Iraq to kill our soldiers? And even though he openly preaches the destruction of our country? And we are the idiots!!!


You really shouldn't buy into the right-wing propaganda so much. I haven't seen him openly preaching the destruction of America, and honestly, I don't care if he does. I've seen crazies on a corner preaching the same thing; I didn't care when they did it, either.

Quote:
It is you Cy who would give him legitimacy by inviting him to speak. I beg to differ that the only idiot here is you and the liberals who think it is quite ok to invite him to talk about his desire to destroy us here on our own soil.


So, you tell me: what advantage is there for him, speaking here? What will it gain him? What would it have gained him if we denied him to speak here?

Quote:
I once respected your opinions even when they differed from mine just as I thought you at least respected mine. But now it seems I am nothing but an idiot to you when I disagree. So fine. Regardless of how you think of me, I will proudly stand by my view on this. Columbia was wrong to invite him and I am sure he is just all giddy knowing he can spout his hatred of us and have it legitimized by an invite from a university.


The only thing that legitimizes his speech are reactionaries who go all aflutter over the fact that someone they disagree with might say something they disagree with. Heavens to Betsy, what will we do if he says things that aren't official US policy! Why, he might call our elected or military leaders a name; that would be a serious blow to our national power.

You guys just don't get it; getting caught up in the petty **** from these little countries, and then acting as if it matters at all, is what gives them legitimacy. Listen to yourself for a second. You're all upset, b/c he's coming here to give a speech. So what? What's different at the end of the day? Nothing at all. He isn't going to say or do anything there which will change anything at all. What's really hurt is your sensibilities; the Right-wing has built Iran (a country who can't hold a candle to us in any way, shape or fashion) into a gigantic enemy, b/c their electoral strategy relies upon a certain amount of fear amongst the populace. And you've totally bought into it. Please, don't.

Please remember that the second we truly, honestly are threatened by Iran, we can turn their country into an unbroken sheet of glass. Without losing a single soldier. And then try to calm down a little.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 11:46 am
I think there is something to be said for not taking our government's word for who we should or should not listen to. I would support our enemies giving Bush a platform to speak (although I wish he represented us better).

It may be that Ahmalongadingdong (isn't this fun?) is everything we're told he his. But refusing to hear him won't improve his leadership or change his course. Maybe, just maybe, if we hear him, he'll hear us.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 11:49 am
Did Columbia give the Minutemen legitimacy when they spoke? Right-wing idiots? If the shoe fits wear it.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 11:50 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You guys just don't get it; getting caught up in the petty **** from these little countries, and then acting as if it matters at all, is what gives them legitimacy. Listen to yourself for a second. You're all upset, b/c he's coming here to give a speech. So what? What's different at the end of the day? Nothing at all. He isn't going to say or do anything there which will change anything at all. What's really hurt is your sensibilities; the Right-wing has built Iran (a country who can't hold a candle to us in any way, shape or fashion) into a gigantic enemy, b/c their electoral strategy relies upon a certain amount of fear amongst the populace. And you've totally bought into it. Please, don't.

Please remember that the second we truly, honestly are threatened by Iran, we can turn their country into an unbroken sheet of glass. Without losing a single soldier. And then try to calm down a little.

Cycloptichorn


I think this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no idea what is going on.

I am upset that an American University would invite someone of Ahmadinejad's notoriety to speak before it's students. It's not about his coming to America and it's not his giving a speech. It's about people like you choosing to ignore the ramifications of actions like validating Ahmadinejad as a world leader by giving him some sort of respect as though he has done something to deserve it.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 11:52 am
Ahmadinejad is getting ready to speak...live stream at CNN, free.

As in free speech...
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 11:54 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
Did Columbia give the Minutemen legitimacy when they spoke? Right-wing idiots? If the shoe fits wear it.


Well?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 11:55 am
McGentrix wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You guys just don't get it; getting caught up in the petty **** from these little countries, and then acting as if it matters at all, is what gives them legitimacy. Listen to yourself for a second. You're all upset, b/c he's coming here to give a speech. So what? What's different at the end of the day? Nothing at all. He isn't going to say or do anything there which will change anything at all. What's really hurt is your sensibilities; the Right-wing has built Iran (a country who can't hold a candle to us in any way, shape or fashion) into a gigantic enemy, b/c their electoral strategy relies upon a certain amount of fear amongst the populace. And you've totally bought into it. Please, don't.

Please remember that the second we truly, honestly are threatened by Iran, we can turn their country into an unbroken sheet of glass. Without losing a single soldier. And then try to calm down a little.

Cycloptichorn


I think this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no idea what is going on.

I am upset that an American University would invite someone of Ahmadinejad's notoriety to speak before it's students. It's not about his coming to America and it's not his giving a speech. It's about people like you choosing to ignore the ramifications of actions like validating Ahmadinejad as a world leader by giving him some sort of respect as though he has done something to deserve it.


What are the ramifications? Specifically. I want specific answers by you on how this helps him. B/c, it seems to me, you've got nothing but fearmongering and hurt sensibilities.

See, not everyone hates people just b/c the right-wing media has painted them as demons. I don't feel anything good or bad about the guy at all, so I see no reason to have any sort of issue with him giving a speech.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 11:57 am
Right now Lee Bolinger, President of Columbia, is exposing Iranian atrocities, calling Ahmadinejad a dictator, so much for validating him, except as the dictator that he is.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 12:05 pm
McGentrix wrote:
blatham wrote:
an article praising that nutjob from Iran


I am disturbed by what appears to be your support of Ahmadinejad in the face of your ever present criticism of Bush.

I guess you just like him better? Does he seem to be a better person to you? What is it about this guy that would lead you to post yet another Salon.com article praising the virtues of a man like Ahmadinejad?


I don't "support" him. I support the principle of free speech.

Juan Cole doesn't "praise the virtues" of the man. He writes from a positon of knowledge far superior to yours (or mine) on what the man's actual power in his state is in contrast with how that is portrayed in the media here, particularly the media you attend to.

And he writes about the marketing/PR/propaganda strategy of demonization which this administration (and the media you attend to) repeatedly uses. Perhaps the president of Iran is worse than you even suspect. You'll never find out the actual truth of such a matter attending to the sources you attend to because truth isn't the point.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 12:05 pm
Well, he basically said what I would have, nice job.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 12:10 pm
McGentrix wrote:
blatham wrote:
an article praising that nutjob from Iran


I am disturbed by what appears to be your support of Ahmadinejad in the face of your ever present criticism of Bush.

I guess you just like him better? Does he seem to be a better person to you? What is it about this guy that would lead you to post yet another Salon.com article praising the virtues of a man like Ahmadinejad?


they're identical twin ass holes...one (bush) is constrained by a previously set up government that try as might he hasn't been able to yet dismantle.... but he would be a plain tyrannical dictator if he could get away with it....
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 12:34 pm
Still no answer from any reactionary Conservative on how, specifically, Iran is helped by letting Ahm. speak today.

Cycloptichorn
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Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 12:46 pm
I feel far more threatened by Bush and Co than Ahmadinejad. Bush has proven he will stop at nothing to limit our rights to privacy, erode The Constitution, spend billions of our tax money killing innocent people for oil, and making sure that any new laws will empower his cronies corporations to do as they see fit to increase their already bloated bottom lines.

Ahmadinejad is just a big mouth who certainly dreams of doing damage, but so far his people have not given him the real power to do so, unlike here.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 02:23 pm
Ahmadinejad is the president of one of the most influential coutries in the Middle East with vast reserves of oil, a highly educated population and a strategic position overlooking major oil supply routes. His views, while abhorent, are held by many millions of people. It is the job of Columbia to expose their students to Ahmadinejad and his ilk to better prepare them for their future. Sometimes you need to experience the beast firsthand to understand what you are up against.

In general, the policy of the US of not engaging petty despots in diplomatic discussion is silly. We should have diplomatic relations with Cuba and Iran for example. We don't have to say anything nice to each other, but we should have an avenue for discussion. Not discussing our differences directly allows people like Ahmadinejad to have the stage to themselves.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 02:24 pm
Well, he spoke, and lo and behold, made a fool of himself on various topics.

Seriously. You Conservatives just can't see that banning him from speaking would have been a nightmare, PR wise; letting him speak is an absolute victory, PR wise.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 03:03 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Well, he spoke, and lo and behold, made a fool of himself on various topics.

Seriously. You Conservatives just can't see that banning him from speaking would have been a nightmare, PR wise; letting him speak is an absolute victory, PR wise.

Cycloptichorn


you said it bro...

btw, in a recent conversation with one of our persian friends we learned that ahmadinejad is about as popular in iran as bush is here.

in iran, m.a. is called "the monkey".

they got "the monkey", we got "the chimp"... hmmmm, there may be some truth behind those "planet of the apes" movies.
0 Replies
 
anton
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 06:44 pm
McGentrix wrote:
No, you are wrong. He is NOT simply another person. That's the part you don't seem to understand.

He is the leader of a country that is seeking nuclear weapons, that has publicly stated he wishes to see other countries obliterated and is a general prick on human rights.

Knowing the facts on this man is not building him up as a devil, and it does not give him power. He already has that through the oppression he and his government use on the folks back home.

If you want to sit in your comfy Berkeley home and ignore one of the most dangerous men in the world coming here and speaking before a bunch of idiots that will be hanging on his every word, that is fine for you. I am sure your ignorance will be greatly appreciated by him.


What proof do you have that Ahmadinejad is seeking nuclear weapons and when you say, "If you want to sit in your comfy Berkeley home and ignore one of the most dangerous men in the world." , do you believe he is more, or less dangerous than George Bush?

The Bush regime is responsible for the destruction of Iraq and its infrastructure, for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis and the displacement of more than two million. Ahmadinejad pales into insignificance compared to that; sure he's been demonized by Bush but that is certainly not evidence and didn't Bush authorize the use of depleted uranium, that's nuclear, it radiates his own fighting men as well as innocent civilians?
0 Replies
 
Mr Nice
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 11:45 pm
He should be allowed to speak. That's the essence of the freedom of speech.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 11:52 pm
Mr Nice wrote:
He should be allowed to speak. That's the essence of the freedom of speech.


exactly. the price of freedom of speech is hearing things that you don't like and allowing it to be said anyway.
0 Replies
 
 

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