Ron Paul on tax reform

the so-called "Fair Tax" is stupid and would drag this country down. You need to do a bit more research, and you will see what I mean.

Advocate:

Fair Tax: Stupid as compared to a tax code that that requires an army of specialists to even begin to understand the ins and out of? (...and, I might add, have made a pretty good living doing tax forms for that 20-25% who can't make heads or tails of it, or are simply too lazy to do the math themselves.) Stupid compared to a tax code that requires one to read six pages of "What's new" in the tax book sent to most of us every year? Stupid compared to a tax code that gives special tax breaks to any business that can effectively lobby for it? Stupid compared to a tax system that requires an entire department of the Government to monitor and they still can't audit the whole thing properly? Stupid compared to a tax system that can be manipulated as a means of social control? Stupid compared to a tax system that allows any "good sounding cause" tax breaks (or grants)? Stupid compared to a system prone to Underfilers and Non-filers to the tune of Millions in tax dollars every year?

I contend we have a flawed tax system that needs fixing. You ask for "for instances". I give you a possibility and you write it off as "stupid". That doesn't sound as if there is much room for negotiation. You didn't even suggest a counter offer. Nice!

I surmise, then, that you are perfectly happy with this patchwork quilt, gerrymandered, grotesquely complicated, 200 lb tax code. Be assured, sir, that I am not.

Halfback

Rama:

One of the reasons I like Churchill is because he just as often shot from the lip as he did the hip. Aside from his political exploits in the first half of the 20th century, he was a prolific writer, an eloquent speaker and lived in a time before "political correctness" became a social watchword. Not to mention very intelligent and quick to penetrate the "Fluff" to get to the "Stuff".

Not to get me wrong. Gandi was a remarkable man also. What he managed to accomplish politically, without resorting to violence, defies ones wildest dreams. It was a sad day for India and, I suspect, for Pakistan (East and West at the time) (even though Pakistan might not have known it at the time) when he was murdered. What further good he might have achieved had he lived.....

Now, if you are SO thin skinned as to take GREAT offence to what one great dead man said about another great dead man over half a century ago..... I do feel a bit sorry for your phyche. It must endure hell reading all the hype, ad hominem attacks, politically UNcorrect remarks and downright hate, in some instances, that one can experience in these forum topics.

But, then, it might be OK, just as long as it is not directed at you, eh? :wink:

Halfback

Half [and I] stated:


Fair Tax: Stupid as compared to a tax code that that requires an army of specialists to even begin to understand the ins and out of? (...and, I might add, have made a pretty good living doing tax forms for that 20-25% who can't make heads or tails of it, or are simply too lazy to do the math themselves.) [FOR THE VAST MAJORITY, ALL ONE NEEDS TO DO IS FILL OUT THE RELEVANT FORM, REFERRING TO THE FORM'S INSTRUCTIONS AS REQUIRED.] Stupid compared to a tax code that requires one to read six pages of "What's new" in the tax book sent to most of us every year? [ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT THE PRESIDENT AND CONGRESS DOES IS THROUGH THE CODE. THUS, THE CODE IS USED TO RAISE MONEY, REGULATE, PUNISH, SUBSIDIZE, ETC., ALL WITHOUT INCREASING THE BUREAUCRACY. WITH THE FAIR TAX, YOU WOULD FIND THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE TRIPLING IN NO TIME.] Stupid compared to a tax code that gives special tax breaks to any business that can effectively lobby for it? [YOU REALLY THINK THE CODE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS, AND THAT IT WOULDN'T HAPPEN WITHOUT THE CODE?] Stupid compared to a tax system that requires an entire department of the Government to monitor and they still can't audit the whole thing properly? [A COMPLEX SOCIETY, WITH A COMPLEX FINANCIAL SYSTEM, REQUIRES A COMPLEX CODE. THE IRS IS RELATIVELY SMALL CONSIDERING THE BILLIONS OF TAX RETURNS, NOTICES, ETC., THAT MUST BE MONITORED. BTW, OUR SYSTEM IS THE ENVY OF THE WORLD.] Stupid compared to a tax system that can be manipulated as a means of social control? Stupid compared to a tax system that allows any "good sounding cause" tax breaks (or grants)? [WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE A HUGE BUREAUCRACY DOING THIS?] Stupid compared to a system prone to Underfilers and Non-filers to the tune of Millions in tax dollars every year? [IT IS REALLY BILLIONS IN TAXES EVADED OR AVOIDED EVERY YEAR. BUT IT IS NOT A TRULY LARGE AMOUNT COMPARED TO THE GDP.]

I contend we have a flawed tax system that needs fixing. [IT IS A TERRIBLE SYSTEM, BUT THERE ARE NONE BETTER.] You ask for "for instances". I give you a possibility and you write it off as "stupid". That doesn't sound as if there is much room for negotiation. You didn't even suggest a counter offer. Nice!

I surmise, then, that you are perfectly happy with this patchwork quilt, gerrymandered, grotesquely complicated, 200 lb tax code. [YOU CAN GET A PAPERBACK COPY OF THE CODE THAT WEIGHS NO MORE THAN A COUPLE OF POUNDS. ARE YOU JUST IGNORANT OF THIS, OR ARE YOU PURPOSELY EXAGGERATING.] Be assured, sir, that I am not. [EVERYTHING CAN BE IMPROVED, BUT THE FAIR TAX WOULD BE A DISASTER.]

Advocate:

In that you didn't see fit to "destroy" all my points....

I'm still waiting for a counter offer that I might "buy into". Try being a little positive once in a while, you might get a kick out of it.

I see I have met the "brick wall" on this topic. Therefore, having healthy adversion to headaches.....

Halfback

I am not sure that you have a very open mind. I such you do a little reading and get back to me.

U r very, very arrogant;
hopelessly arrogant.


If we all do more reading
and have open minds, then we will all agree with u.
U find it enuf to ASSUME that u r right.

rofl

I have done some reading on it! A considerable amount, in fact. My original post was to elicit some commentary on the concept. I am treated with "stupid" and "catastrophic" without so much as a reason why, in your august opinion.

My second post made some comparisons, again eliciting, perhaps some discussion. I got circular arguements, ad hominem attacks and complete non-sequetors in some cases.

I do admit exaggeration on the weight of the US Tax Code, Complete and Annotated as shown to me by a Tax Specialist Lawyer in 1989. It was more like 50 pounds, I suppose. I didn't weigh it.

Finally, I am branded "ignorant". I admit to being ignorant about many things, but I am no foreigner to the concepts of economics, finance and associated subjects, having achieved a Masters Degree in that area. If you had taken my original request in the intent it was sent, a simple query for your read on the "Fair Tax", you could have expressed your misgivings, I could have expressed mine and perhaps we could have come to some common ground. As it stands, you have chosen to take the "ad hominem" approach thereby demonstrating that your contributions to this discussion amount to negativism and bombast.

"Do some reading and get back to me", indeed! I haven't been dismissed with such comtempt in many a year. I might suggest you do the same.... start with a book on civility and manners.

Halfback

While this is an unusual platform regarding the many flaws of the Fair Tax scheme, it provides some key criticisms.

http://www.jpfo.org/fairtax.htm

I think among the various luminaries and personalities who wish to occupy the powerful post in the globe
Ron Paul is the only person who stood steadfast (without wishy washy , dilly dally nonsense) against war.
As a non American I wish and hope that US voters willvote an anti-war candidate.
I am a Gandhi believer with Communist ideals

Paul was right about the war, but is wrong on virtually everything else.

Yeah; u really HATE freedom, right ?

I 've been to a lot of libertarian meetings, over the decades,
and I support most of their freedom based ideology,
but I gotta admit that I cud never accept their positions
against war, against military conscription.

Even back during the Third World War,
thay took anti-military positions,
which I argued wud result in universal slavery,
if the commies won that war and conquered the world.
I argued that the libertarians shud not support universal slavery under communism.

David

David.
Does not matter who is the next resident to ruin the world.
Most of US not with the corporate criminals.
V R not with U
Rama fuchs

The next corporate dancing doll( A male or female, black or white) will be a one term resident of the black or white house. After this Holiwood drama for the last 200 years of nonsense,
there will be a new party which will
uphold
dignity
decency.
( I will not survive to see my predictions)

That does not matter.
We don 't need u; we don 't want u, Rama.
David

Gun control is regulation. There are regulations that you favor; thus, you are opposed to freedom.

You were a spy for HUAC, thus ruining the lives of many people who thought they were free to have different views. Your views are the antithesis of freedom.