GE Logix 255/760 On Demand 48000 grain Water Softener

The two big dogs in the control valve industry are Fleck (the largest by far) and Autotrol. Both have decades of reliable service history in the field and have achieved notice and respect and support from water treatment professionals worldwide. Every pro has their favorite and that makes sense.

The new kid on the block at around seven years is the Clack control valve.

Autotrol was bought out by GE and that is the GE Logix controller you have on the softener at your home. Don't confuse the GE (Autotrol) Logix control valve softeners with the prebuilt box store GE disposable softeners you see at Home Depot.

To make a long story short... you found a local water treatment professional that has configured a system for your specific needs and you have had the opportunity to actually try the system, and are satisfied with the installation, it's operation, the dealer, the warranty, and the price, then it is a fair deal considering that the dealer will be there to service what he sold and you already know the quality of his work.

If, on the other hand, you want someone you'll never see to drop ship you a bunch of boxes from a warehouse somewhere else so you can assemble the softener, install the softener, and setup the softener to see if it meets your needs, not get any service, and only a parts warranty you'll spend less.

Your choice is easy... spend more and get more or spend less and get less.

It's your time and your money, which do YOU choose?

Yes I like the Clack WS-1 and so did justalurker until he disrupted my forum and I told him about it and he got upset with me two years ago. He bought it from me in July 2004.

It is a copy of the Fleck piston, seal and spacer design and the latest improved version of the Fleck line that Fleck still hasn't produced. It was designed by 3 ex-Fleck engineers with 70+ years at Fleck. Would anyone expect it to be lesser quality than Fleck; except justalurker and h20man?

Many companies that have used Fleck valves for decades have gone to Clack. Many dealers, plumbing and pump supply houses and plumbers have also.

I've sold roughly 880 of them and have had 19 problems. The latest Fleck valve, the 7000, has given me proportionally more problems than all those Clack valves.

I was a Fleck guy from 1987 until Jan 2004, since then I'm a Clack guy. It's a better design using less expensive raw materials it has a lower cost of manufacturing than anything else with the same quality. It is a DIYer's and dealer's dream to repair with the lowest cost of repair parts.

Anyone that disagrees with that analysis is uninformed and repeating gossip with no first hand experience or... running an agenda against me like justalurker does.

The Logix is not a control valve.

It is a timer/controller. You have an Autotrol 255 control valve. The Logix is not a good thing; it only has 3 salt dose settings and your choice is high, medium or low salt efficiency.

Autotrol valves have 6-7 flapper valves controlled by cams on a cam shaft, which is a cheap design and prone to problems especially on visibly dirty water.

Really? You can see what future that dealer will have! He could be out of business in 6 months. What does Idaho do then BUT, he is rightfully feeling he's being taken, or did you miss that part?

He's involved with a rip off artist that supposedly has put together a softener "for this area", like one size fits all right Steve?

He can have a correctly sized softener with a Clack WS1 control valve for hundreds of dollars less; like all but half the $1300 they want.

Plus the plumbing to install it is easier now that they installed that softener.

It is alive!

The peace and quiet was nice while it lasted...

Slusser the king of Slander has returned

Ohioadventurer,

You can choose to believe the installation and water softener you see with your own eyes and the soft water you feel with your own skin... a water softener professionally installed in your home that is doing exactly what you want it to do. The look in the dealer's eye, the handshake when you make the deal, and a local dealer who is dependent on maintaining a good reputation in your community and charging a fair price so he'll be there the next time you or your neighbor's need him.

Or... you can choose a stranger who is "wherever he parks his motorhome", with a keyboard, who doesn't know you, your water conditions, or your installation requirements and is only interested in sliding HIS hand into YOUR pocket. He is the only person on this forum with an agenda. He is an online water softener seller who is keyboarding for dollars and trolling for sales on other people's forums.



That local dealer will survive as long as he gives his customers a dollar's worth for a dollar and backs that up with service and parts and as long as the community supports the dealer. That is the nature of things in small towns and rural areas. The community supports local businesses and the local businesses support the community.

Which is more likely, that dealer closing his doors in six months or Gary running his motorhome into a ditch while driving and keyboarding (to sell softeners on the internet) at the same time? Hopefully, neither will happen.

You are just as dependent on that local dealer for your warranty as you would be from an online seller, no more and no less, but the local dealer provides labor and parts while the online seller only offers warranty parts that are UPS or FedEx away.

In real estate it's location, location, location and with water treatment its's DEALER, DEALER, DEALER.

You pay more and you get more. You pay less and you get less... the question is how much less is acceptable to you?

A.... it's Idahoadventurer Steve....

BUT... it looks like the dealer's location is Salt Lake City UT! a state plus away from Boise ID yet you call him LOCAL!! LOL And he employs door to door sales that far from home.

And you see nothing wrong with the fact that the price tumbled from $2700 to $1700 to $1300 - all for the same 1.5 cuft (48k) softener that sells online for $600 including freight.

And you advise Idahoadventurer to pay up and keep the thing....

Idahoadventurer, please accept my apology for moving you to Ohio. I assure you I had no ulterior motive in relocating you.



Yea, and Sears put themselves on the retail map by selling through catalogs in rural areas, your point? Idahoadventurer got to look a REAL live person in the eye... that beats an a post on a web forum.

Utah is a lot closer to Idaho than wherever and apparently the dealer's installers and service people know where Idaoadventurer lives :wink:



I'm advising Idahoadventurer the following...

If he is satisfied with the installation, softener, and the service the dealer has provided then make his best deal.

If he is not satisfied then he has to decide how much less he is willing to spend and how much less he is willing to accept.

Re: GE Logix 255/760 On Demand 48000 grain Water Softener


If you want the very best, seek out your local EcoWater dealer. You will not be disappointed.

I hope that helps ~

OH my... wasn't expecting the back and forth in my little ol' post... :wink:

But conversation and different points is a very good thing so I completely appreciate it!!!

Yes... IDAHO... not ohio... or not even iowa, which we get confused with more than anything. I actually just moved from Chicago a little over a year ago. People often say, "what's in IDAHO??!!??!!???!" Until you have been here - you'll never understand the depth of outdoor things nor the beauty!! But I digress...

Lurker - I definitely agree with Gary on the feeling like I am being taken!! I am finding that same unit online for $600 tops and that DOES include shipping. I live in a brand new home and it was preplumbed for softeners... so the install was very easy! I can totally see myself doing it.

I am struggling with paying $700 more for ... being able to see someone face to face? In reality, how often SHOULD I expect to see him face-to-face?? I am hoping not at all. To also correct, he is a part owner of a company (Aspenh20) which was founded in 2001 in Salt Lake City (which is the state directly south of Idaho - 4 hours away) and one of the owners (the one who is trying to sell me this) moved up to Boise to branch out into this market since the water is similar I guess.

I would be willing to pay him, let's say $700... that is $600 for the unit and $100 to install, which took they guy about 30 minutes to do. Again, all preplumbed so it was more like connecting it is all. I AM struggling with him coming down from $2700 to $1700 to $1300. I don't believe $1300 is his cost now that I have done some research on the internet. If it IS, then I think he has some issues, not me.

I no longer feel comfortable paying $1300 (not to say I ever did) but certainly not after seeing the same unit online. Plus, per what Gary states, it doesn't sound like the best option - meaning the whole control valve contraption he was speaking of. SOOO, I feel like I am back at square one. I feel bad telling the guy that I am not interested, but it WAS / IS 30 day trial period with no strings attached.... if they would have told me the price (and I did ask) at the beginning, I would have never even let them put it in for me to try b/c that is over my price range.

From what I have seen in other posts, H2O, I think ECO is too expensive for me. But maybe I should try for NorthStar was it? I am torn b/c I have so so little in savings, do not like to put things on credit, am working for a company doing layoffs and of which I have only been at for 9 months (although seniority doesn't factor from what I understand).... so... in a way, I should maybe just hang tight... but then again, my house will be 1 year old in Nov and I CAN understand the degradation of let's say the water heater b/c of the hard water... that's why I am torn.

I just want to best deal and not feeling it from AspenH2O at the moment. I wish I would have known about this website PRIOR to me accepting the 30 day trial...

Anyway, as I've stated, I really do appreciate the feedback even though I don't understand why you guys always go back and forth - I guess I am just not that sort of guy so hard for me to understand where the hate comes from. When it all comes down to it... we are all children of God... we all breath, bleed, and biologically function the same way... and if we are all completely honest with each other, most of us have similar fears and experiences... I just wish the world would focus on our similarities as a human race and appreciate our differences versus focusing so much on how we are different (diverse) and forgetting about the human fundamental side... but again... I digress... AND I am not even a political person... nor am I a right winged religious nut!!

See if the Aspen guy will let you lease/rent the softener after the 30 day trial.

I had asked about that upfront at the beginning and I was told no

Idahoadventurer, I suggest you call them to come remove the softener, no leasing/renting it, and I hope you don't find out there was some fine print somewhere.

Door to door and other rip off type dealers usually use a lot of fine print after they smile real friendly while lying to you.

Yes, see if you can find a local source for North Star conditioners.
They are excellent for the $$ paid.

North Star is made by Ecowater and uses the same control valve and clamp on mineral tanks as the other Ecowater made Kenmore, GE, Whirlpool and mortonsalt.com mass marketed big box store brand softeners. The difference is that they are not cabinet models; resin tank in the salt tank called one piece or single tank models. They are 'two tank' models; separate resin and salt tanks.

North Star is marketed through plumbing and pump supply houses and sold to plumbers, pump guys and well drillers.

IMO North Star is not a good choice nor is it good quality, and for what you get, they are way overpriced.

I forgot to mention that the North Star system is set up for an easy do-it-yourself installation.
It comes with everything you need and can be had as an all-in-one system as pictured below or a two tank system.

I hope that helps

OK, I am corrected that they also come in a cabinet model and yet that proves the rest of my comments about them being the same as the other Ecowater made big box store brands. Or don't they make them in the two tank models anymore?

Do you Ecowater dealers offer them to your prospective customers that won't spring for the rip off prices for the ER versions?

You would have to ask an EcoWater dealer those questions.

Well -

I just spoke to Aspen (the owner that I have been talking to) and told him really what I have typed here to be quite honest. It told him I was torn and that I can get them online, some of the comments you guys have mentioned, and other things I have learned on here. The conversation was fine and no sales pressure - other than him pointing out to me that he has this manufacturer in Utah assemble these for him to his specifications. He does put a fine mesh resin by Purolite (sp?) which he said is about a $130 upgrade. And the other difference is he provides a lifetime warranty on their system. Online, it is only manufacturer's and those are only 5 year.

With what Gary said about this Aturol (sp?) valve having 7 parts and not being of great quality - the lifetime would be nice. However, Aspen has only been in business since 2001, so it's not like I am working with a business that has been around for 30 years. IF they go out of business in the next couple of years - that lifetime warranty does me no good. That is my worry.

He said he really is at his bottom price at $1287 b/c he has to factor in his marketing, the upgrade of resin, overhead, etc. which I can appreciate. I mean, after all, he IS in business to stay in business.

Maybe I shouldn't even get one right now - the timing isn't right for everyone. However, I do worry about my water heater and it IS nice not having spots all over. I haven't spoken to any local reps on what it would be to, let's say, put a NorthStar in. So, not sure if I can get one in less expensive or not. At $1287, I don't feel like he is screwing me, but in the end, I am the one that ends up paying that $600 or so difference for HIS overhead, etc. etc. He did state that any plumber would cost around $200-250 to install a new softener for me (That was also part of the difference).

Maybe Justalurker is right... maybe I should just call him and have him take it out ... or was it Gary that stated that... regardless... maybe that is what I should do. I did tell him that I wish they would have been upfront with me in the beginning and told me the price (or at least a range) b/c I would have never even done the 30 day trial knowing that and it would have saved me from being in this position. But oh well. Life is about learning right?

Oh, so the bottom line is that I need to call him tomorrow with a final decision. So, off to mow the lawn and then will come back to see if anyone has commented. Thanks for your help and me being able to bounce this off you guys!! Appreciate it!

Idahoadventurer,

One online seller says GE/Osmonics/Autotrol control valves are no good and that is a definitive determination? A wide sampling of informed opinion? If you go around the net and ask you might find that the pro's favorite by FAR is Fleck with Autotrol second and many savy pros are reserving judgement on the Clack until it at least reaches puberty... and I bought a Clack WS-1, but I use it as a door stop.

If you want to learn a little about the Autotrol 255 valve body before you dismiss it out of hand then click here...

Both Fleck and Autotrol have decades of proven reliable service in the field and that fact counts far more than one online seller's biased opinion against it.

I see far fewer posts on self help forums looking for assistance with Autotrol control valves than with Sears or Culligan softeners. There must be a lot of Autotrol controlled softeners out there working correctly or you'd see more bitchin' about them because people love to rant on the internet.

Let's look at the numbers...

$600 = online purchase of softener

$130 = upgrade to Purolite fine mesh resin

$??? = assembly, installation, & setup

$??? = parts and labor lifetime warranty (a far better warranty than ANY online softener seller's parts only warranty)

$??? = realtime response when service is needed VS troubleshooting over the phone and waiting for (what you hope are the correct and necessary) parts to arrive by UPS or FedEx and doing the repairs yourself, if you can. Yea Gary, I know... anybody can repair and anybody can solder and anybody can install, yada yada yada yada.

So, fill in all the "$???" with a dollar amount you feel is fair and see how close the total comes to $1287 then you decide what to do.

You pay more and get more or you pay less and get less. Regardless of who rants and how loudly they do it, in this instance that statement is true. As I said before, only you can decide how much more you want or how much less you'll accept.

Which ever way you decide I hope you get soft water sooner than later.

Most web sites and local dealers sell Fleck and do not sell Autotrol - there's a number of reasons although Autotrol costs dealers less than Fleck and Clack.

There is no reason for fine mesh resin and rarely will any salt savings allow you to recover the additional cost for it.

Autotrol valves have 6-7 flapper valves operated by a cam shaft, there are many more parts to the control valve than those 6-7. They have the highest number of parts of all brands of control valves.

The 255 is the revised version, in the early '90s, of the 1970+/- 155. It is old technology with a Logix or other timer on it.

Fine mesh resin causes a higher pressure loss across a softener than the same softener with regular mesh resin in it.

You didn't say parts were covered in the "lifetime" warranty and you should get a copy of the "lifetime" warranty and make sure of what is covered and to what extent. He is not charging enough to give a "lifetime" warranty covering everything as long as you own the softener. There will be many exclusions and possibly time limits.