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Homosexuality v. Divorce - Sin is sin, isn't it?

 
 
USAFHokie80
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2007 07:15 pm
real life wrote:
USAFHokie80 wrote:
real life wrote:
mesquite wrote:
mismi40 wrote:
The Bible is much older than 300 years old. The New Testament was Canonized in 375 A.D., and I know that is not the point. But I absolutely do believe it is as relevant today as it ever was. Beautiful truths there...it certainly is relevant to me.


Certainly the Bible has some good stuff. Unfortunately it also comes with the baggage of a lot of absolutely horrific passages such as the treatment of the Midianites in Numbers 31.

I don't personally care what people believe so long as they do not attempt to force their particular interpretation of ancient religious texts upon the general population.

Last November, Arizona just narrowly defeated a mean-spirited proposition to amend the state constitution that read as follows.

Quote:
"To preserve and protect marriage in this state, only a union between one man and one woman shall be valid and recognized as a marriage by this state or its political subdivisions and no legal status for unmarried persons shall be created or recognized by this state or its political subdivisions that is similar to that of marriage."


In the state of Arizona there are counties and municipalities that currently grant medical benefits to dependent "unmarried domestic partners". The Protect Marriage Arizona initiative would have prohibited recognizing these domestic partners whether they be same sex or not with the net effect being the loss of medical benefits to many families and their children.

It is a shame that Christians such as the ones that sponsored and supported this bill don't pay more attention to verses such as "Do unto others as you would have them do to you". Luke 6:31 .


I thought you were all about separation of church and state?

Why are you saying that Christians should vote in accordance with a New Testament passage?

Is it only when you agree with it that violating the wall between church and state becomes acceptable?

This is becoming a very common strategy for liberals in America. Very selective though. Same thing they have been accusing conservatives of, BTW.


you obviously misunderstood. i think the point is that since they're going to vote and base their choices on the bible, they should take that phrase into account.


Then you validate my point.

As long as liberals can decide which scripture should or should not be emphasized, or employed to promote a policy ----

--- then political action based on religious tenet is ok with them.

But if someone ELSE decides what religious principle should guide public action, then liberals are all AGAINST any such church / state corrollation.

They oppose 'mixing of church and state' ONLY if the result is one that they do not favor.


Not at all. You again completely misunderstood what I'm saying. I disagree with ANY politics based on religion. I, however, cannot force christians to use commone sense in place of blind faith in an unsubstantiated work of fiction. They will vote as they think they should according to the bible. The point was that if they are going to do that, they should at least read all of it and not only the parts that they *want* to abide by.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2007 10:01 pm
mesquite wrote:
I'll bet you check under the bed at night to see if there's a liberal waiting to get you.
squinney wrote:
BOO!!
Politics makes strange bedfellows. Personally, I prefer my liberals in the bed rather than under!
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 10:19 am
mesquite wrote:
real life wrote:
mesquite wrote:
mismi40 wrote:
The Bible is much older than 300 years old. The New Testament was Canonized in 375 A.D., and I know that is not the point. But I absolutely do believe it is as relevant today as it ever was. Beautiful truths there...it certainly is relevant to me.


Certainly the Bible has some good stuff. Unfortunately it also comes with the baggage of a lot of absolutely horrific passages such as the treatment of the Midianites in Numbers 31.

I don't personally care what people believe so long as they do not attempt to force their particular interpretation of ancient religious texts upon the general population.

Last November, Arizona just narrowly defeated a mean-spirited proposition to amend the state constitution that read as follows.

Quote:
"To preserve and protect marriage in this state, only a union between one man and one woman shall be valid and recognized as a marriage by this state or its political subdivisions and no legal status for unmarried persons shall be created or recognized by this state or its political subdivisions that is similar to that of marriage."


In the state of Arizona there are counties and municipalities that currently grant medical benefits to dependent "unmarried domestic partners". The Protect Marriage Arizona initiative would have prohibited recognizing these domestic partners whether they be same sex or not with the net effect being the loss of medical benefits to many families and their children.

It is a shame that Christians such as the ones that sponsored and supported this bill don't pay more attention to verses such as "Do unto others as you would have them do to you". Luke 6:31 .


I thought you were all about separation of church and state?

You betcha!

real life wrote:
Why are you saying that Christians should vote in accordance with a New Testament passage?

I said no such thing. The remark that seems to have gotten your shorts all in a bunch was directed to a very specific group of self righteous zealots, Christians such as the ones that sponsored and supported this bill. For that group which is hell bent on imposing their particular biblical interpretations upon the rest of us, I was using a biblical quote.

real life wrote:
Is it only when you agree with it that violating the wall between church and state becomes acceptable?

Pure straw.

real life wrote:
This is becoming a very common strategy for liberals in America. Very selective though. Same thing they have been accusing conservatives of, BTW.

I'll bet you check under the bed at night to see if there's a liberal waiting to get you.


Either you think it is ok for Christians to take actions (including voting, sponsoring legislation, running for office, etc) based upon their convictions -------

----- or you don't.

You want to have your cake and eat it too.

It seems ok to you, if they are acting in accordance with want you want. And they are violating separation of church and state if they act contrary to what you want.

There is a word for that.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 01:00 pm
Quote:
Either you think it is ok for Christians to take actions (including voting, sponsoring legislation, running for office, etc) based upon their convictions -------

----- or you don't.

You want to have your cake and eat it too.

It seems ok to you, if they are acting in accordance with want you want. And they are violating separation of church and state if they act contrary to what you want.

There is a word for that.


Finally!!! Glad someone said this. "They" scream bloody murder about Christians pushing their opinions down other's throat - yet do not/will not recognize the 'h-word' of their own action in doing so. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 02:23 pm
baddog1 wrote:
Quote:
Either you think it is ok for Christians to take actions (including voting, sponsoring legislation, running for office, etc) based upon their convictions -------

----- or you don't.

You want to have your cake and eat it too.

It seems ok to you, if they are acting in accordance with want you want. And they are violating separation of church and state if they act contrary to what you want.

There is a word for that.


Finally!!! Glad someone said this. "They" scream bloody murder about Christians pushing their opinions down other's throat - yet do not/will not recognize the 'h-word' of their own action in doing so. :wink:

No no no.

How are non-christians being hypocritical at all? The point Hokie makes is that so-called christians seem to pick and choose when they want to be political christians. He only quoted scripture to make the point thatthe so-called christians act quite contrary to their own beliefs.

He made no case that the bible should be selectively used for any political reason.

How have liberals forced anything down your throat? Just because people don't want to live under someone else's religious orthodoxy, does not mean that they are doing any thing hypocritical.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me when the presence of religion in politics has helped a society.

Where is the systematic non-christian hypocracy? Where? I expect a concrete example. Direct question direct answer please.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 03:23 pm
baddog1 wrote:
"They" scream bloody murder about Christians pushing their opinions down other's throat - yet do not/will not recognize the 'h-word' of their own action in doing so. :wink:
Your argument is based on the false premise that all opinions are of equal merit and all opinions are of equal fairness.

Fundamentalist Christian opinions are easily discredited and often unfair.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 03:33 pm
Chumly wrote:
baddog1 wrote:
"They" scream bloody murder about Christians pushing their opinions down other's throat - yet do not/will not recognize the 'h-word' of their own action in doing so. :wink:
Your argument is based on the false premise that all opinions are of equal merit and all opinions are of equal fairness.

Fundamentalist Christian opinions are easily discredited and often unfair.

I'm reminded of the quote: "I don't believe what you say, but I'll fight for your right to say it." Christians just don't do that, yet enjoy the benifit of their freedom to express themselves.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 05:01 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
Chumly wrote:
baddog1 wrote:
"They" scream bloody murder about Christians pushing their opinions down other's throat - yet do not/will not recognize the 'h-word' of their own action in doing so. :wink:
Your argument is based on the false premise that all opinions are of equal merit and all opinions are of equal fairness.

Fundamentalist Christian opinions are easily discredited and often unfair.

I'm reminded of the quote: "I don't believe what you say, but I'll fight for your right to say it." Christians just don't do that, yet enjoy the benifit of their freedom to express themselves.

T
K
O
I am OK with such expressions of freedom by Christians, as long as they do not impinge upon my freedoms. I would of course rather have rational expressions of freedom.
0 Replies
 
USAFHokie80
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 09:02 pm
The State of Texas has just made a requirement that the phrase "one state, under God" be added to the pledge of allegiance and said by all students before school is began. Students can be waived with a note from a parent.

----

This is a prime example of forcing religion onto people. I want to know why a kid has to have a parent excuse him from saying these things. Surely the kid can think for himself and determine if he wants to believe. If he does not, it should be HIS choice alone.

If it were me, I would not ask permission of ANYONE to be excused and I absolutely would not utter a word. Children also have constitutional rights of freedom of and from religion.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 09:06 pm
I thought that the "one state, under god" bit was put in and mandatory during McCarthyism...... In high school, I refused to say the whole pledge because of that clause.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 12:04 am
real life wrote:
Either you think it is ok for Christians to take actions (including voting, sponsoring legislation, running for office, etc) based upon their convictions -------

----- or you don't.

You want to have your cake and eat it too.

It seems ok to you, if they are acting in accordance with want you want. And they are violating separation of church and state if they act contrary to what you want.

There is a word for that.


I most certainly think it is ok for Christians or any group to take actions (including voting, sponsoring legislation, running for office, etc) based upon their convictions. That is their right and is a totally different matter from the separation of church and state issue.

That does not mean that I cannot disagree with their positions or proposed legislation and speak in opposition. Respecting the rights of others is a concept that those with binary with me or against me attitudes such as yourself and your cheerleader baddog seem to have a problem grasping.

Some people such as our friend neologist recognize the value of keeping the government out of religious affairs and are content to use the power of persuasion to accomplish their goals.

At the other end of the spectrum are the American taliban who would use the full power of government to enforce their particular interpretation of truth.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 06:46 am
mesquite wrote:

...That does not mean that I cannot disagree with their positions or proposed legislation and speak in opposition. Respecting the rights of others is a concept that those with binary with me or against me attitudes such as yourself and your cheerleader baddog seem to have a problem grasping...


Having a little trouble understanding the wording/message here. Please try and explain it in a way that a woeful cheerleader such as myself may better get the message. Confused
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2007 09:00 pm
Was it Jay Leno who said that the Idaho senator who opposed gay marriage but was caught making a homosexual overture to a cop in a public bathroom was not hypocritical? Leno said that the senator didn't propose marriage to the cop, only sex.
0 Replies
 
agno06
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Sep, 2007 10:48 am
mismi40 wrote:
sin is sin - let your conscience decide. You can't be someone elses conscience. Most people know when they are doing wrong even if they won't admit it...even to themselves. We all rationalize our behavior - so sometimes we just have to let people make their own beds and lie in them, just as we do our own. Sounds like a list of cliche's. It IS a list of cliche's. oh well.


I'm an agnostic and I really don't believe there is sin at all. How can we prove there is sin if we can't prove there is a god? Weather or not god exists is not a theory it's a belief and beliefs are not usually proven.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Sep, 2007 02:35 pm
I agree, sin is a violation of God's will while crime pertains to society's will. We know societies exist.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Sep, 2007 09:43 pm
JLNobody wrote:
I agree, sin is a violation of God's will while crime pertains to society's will. We know societies exist.

This should be your sig line.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
 

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