Homosexuality v. Divorce - Sin is sin, isn't it?

The Bible does not allow divorce is not completely accurate - it depends on the interpretation.

Each Christian denomination does believe slightly different things to how they interpret the Bible. Some Christian Churches allow gays to marry and support them and some don't. Some do not believe or support divorce or gays and will not allow a divorced person to marry in their church.

mismi40 wrote:

Well...that can be taken the other way as well...such as abortion. It was run through because women wanted freedom to do what they chose with their own bodies. Now I believe that women should have that right as well...within the scope of treating the life within them as what it really is a baby - that also has a right to life. But that is just what I believe. And I believe it strongly. I will defend that baby the best I can within the limits I have been given by law. God's and man-made. That is my best.

Everyone has an agenda...and everyone has to fight for that agenda. Does it work? For one side yes for the other no...is there a better way to do it? I have no clue. All I know is I have to do what I believe to be right and you have to do the same. Can we do it and still have respect and consideration for the other person? We should. But it just doesn't happen. Emotions are hard to control. And we are after all only human. We have to live by what we believe, learn from our mistakes and try to do better.

I am fully aware that people have 'most' people are religious and probably don't support gay marriage. I can respect their opinion but I see no reason why the majority should rule over the minority when the minority doesn't hurt anyone. If the majority thinks the minority is going to hell, well that would be the minoritys problem.

I think abortion falls into a slightly different category as it deals with issues like death and disagreements on when life begins. Homosexuality may be offensive to some but I certainly think there are limits of how much intolerance we can tolerate ( yea, thats right... umm).

Linkat wrote:

The Bible does not allow divorce is not completely accurate - it depends on the interpretation.

Each Christian denomination does believe slightly different things to how they interpret the Bible. Some Christian Churches allow gays to marry and support them and some don't. Some do not believe or support divorce or gays and will not allow a divorced person to marry in their church.

Isn't that the case for everything?


Malachi 2:16a: "I hate divorce, says the Lord God of Israel."

Matthew 19:6 "So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate"

Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 provides for a divorce in the case of "marital unfaithfulness"

Deuteronomy 24:1-2 Divorce and remarriage: "When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife."

Matthew 5:31-32: Divorce allowed, but remarriage often involves adultery: "It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement. But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."


So it definitely seems that excepting for two certain circumstances, divorce is prohibited. And it should be noted that it seems to allow a man to divorce a woman, and not the other way around...

USAFHokie80 wrote:

Linkat wrote:

The Bible does not allow divorce is not completely accurate - it depends on the interpretation.

Each Christian denomination does believe slightly different things to how they interpret the Bible. Some Christian Churches allow gays to marry and support them and some don't. Some do not believe or support divorce or gays and will not allow a divorced person to marry in their church.

Isn't that the case for everything?


Malachi 2:16a: "I hate divorce, says the Lord God of Israel."

Matthew 19:6 "So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate"

Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 provides for a divorce in the case of "marital unfaithfulness"

Deuteronomy 24:1-2 Divorce and remarriage: "When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife."

Matthew 5:31-32: Divorce allowed, but remarriage often involves adultery: "It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement. But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."


So it definitely seems that excepting for two certain circumstances, divorce is prohibited. And it should be noted that it seems to allow a man to divorce a woman, and not the other way around...

The Bible was not written in English - so you are using an intrepretation of the Bible not the original written word. Depending on which English translation it could be written differently. Also, often times people (much more versed in translated Greek and Latin than me) have different intrepretations for the same word or words. It is not as straight forward as mearly pulling an English version of the Bible and saying this is what the Bible says. To truly understand verses you need to go to the original wording and consider the context and various intrepertations of the original language. It is very complex as these original languages do not have precise translations into English.

...I suck at debating Deist TKO...so I am done here...There is no way I can argue or debate with all of the intellectuals here! I am in way over my head. Generally after posting these things...I am telling myself - "What was I thinking?" I stand by my opinion that it is not wrong to share what we believe - If I believe that I can do it...then I have to believe it is okay for you to do so as well. Sure...I might try to give you some kind of proof or basis for where I get my belief...but ultimately - what you believe is up to you. I can't really change that.

mismi40 wrote:

...I suck at debating Deist TKO...so I am done here...There is no way I can argue or debate with all of the intellectuals here! I am in way over my head. Generally after posting these things...I am telling myself - "What was I thinking?" I stand by my opinion that it is not wrong to share what we believe - If I believe that I can do it...then I have to believe it is okay for you to do so as well. Sure...I might try to give you some kind of proof or basis for where I get my belief...but ultimately - what you believe is up to you. I can't really change that.

Mismi:

You are much better at debating than you're giving yourself credit for! Your style is different - from the heart - which is powerful, so please continue! :wink:

Linkat wrote:

USAFHokie80 wrote:

Linkat wrote:

The Bible does not allow divorce is not completely accurate - it depends on the interpretation.

Each Christian denomination does believe slightly different things to how they interpret the Bible. Some Christian Churches allow gays to marry and support them and some don't. Some do not believe or support divorce or gays and will not allow a divorced person to marry in their church.

Isn't that the case for everything?


Malachi 2:16a: "I hate divorce, says the Lord God of Israel."

Matthew 19:6 "So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate"

Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 provides for a divorce in the case of "marital unfaithfulness"

Deuteronomy 24:1-2 Divorce and remarriage: "When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife."

Matthew 5:31-32: Divorce allowed, but remarriage often involves adultery: "It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement. But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."


So it definitely seems that excepting for two certain circumstances, divorce is prohibited. And it should be noted that it seems to allow a man to divorce a woman, and not the other way around...

The Bible was not written in English - so you are using an intrepretation of the Bible not the original written word. Depending on which English translation it could be written differently. Also, often times people (much more versed in translated Greek and Latin than me) have different intrepretations for the same word or words. It is not as straight forward as mearly pulling an English version of the Bible and saying this is what the Bible says. To truly understand verses you need to go to the original wording and consider the context and various intrepertations of the original language. It is very complex as these original languages do not have precise translations into English.

You are proving my point... If this is open to interpretation because of the translations and whatnot, why is everyone so sure that the bible fully condemns homos? That too, is interpretation.

Let's not forget God is a sinner too. There's plenty of God's Wrath referenced in the Bible.

There are plenty of things that people don't want to hear. Like when the world was no longer flat. Like when it's okay to view your own naked body, so that you may bathe (Black Plague reference). What you don't want to hear is that your book, your religion is no longer culturally relavant and as the light of science grows brighter, it can't hold a candle to it.

You're not sharing what you know, your sharing what you believe. It's dangerous to confuse the two.

T
K
O

Diest TKO wrote:

Let's not forget God is a sinner too. There's plenty of God's Wrath referenced in the Bible.

There are plenty of things that people don't want to hear. Like when the world was no longer flat. Like when it's okay to view your own naked body, so that you may bathe (Black Plague reference). What you don't want to hear is that your book, your religion is no longer culturally relavant and as the light of science grows brighter, it can't hold a candle to it.

You're not sharing what you know, your sharing what you believe. It's dangerous to confuse the two.

T
K
O

Many unsubstantiated speculations. The true God, by definition, would be incapable of sin.

neologist wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:

Let's not forget God is a sinner too. There's plenty of God's Wrath referenced in the Bible.

There are plenty of things that people don't want to hear. Like when the world was no longer flat. Like when it's okay to view your own naked body, so that you may bathe (Black Plague reference). What you don't want to hear is that your book, your religion is no longer culturally relavant and as the light of science grows brighter, it can't hold a candle to it.

You're not sharing what you know, your sharing what you believe. It's dangerous to confuse the two.

T
K
O

Many unsubstantiated speculations. The true God, by definition, would be incapable of sin.

Sounds like a domain error to me. Problem with the definition, says me, says the world around us. There is no reason to default to the notion that if a god existed that it would be purely righteous.

As for unsubstantiated speculations.

The world is round. Proven.
We need to bathe to cleanse ourself of germs and bacteria. Let's all thank Joseph Lister for antiseptics.

As for unsubstanciated, the book, and the spoken teachings of jews, christians and muslims etc are what need substanciation, not my claim that they are losing all relavance as we learn more about the universe.

T
K
O

I suppose you're right... "everyone" is a big much. But by far, the religious majority of the US does condemn them. It just strikes me as completely unfair and hypocritical.

I may be mistaken but does'nt God frown more upon the act of homosexuality as opposed to the person who struggles with homosexual temptations?

I wanted to make one other statement in regard to conservative Christians and homosexuality. There is hope in conservatives accepting at least to some degree.

My husband is a conservative Christian - his up bringing. It could be difficult some times because he was so against such relationships. Me, I could not understand how something between two loving adults could be wrong. Well, God has a funny way of working. He paired up in sense my husband with a gay man (not as a couple of course). My husband's number 1 employee is gay and lives with his partner. This guy is so great as an employee (my husband relies on him to pretty much run things) and as a human being. As a result my husband is re-thinking his opinion. I think this is so awesome how much my husband really likes and respects this person.

As the saying goes - God works in mysterous ways.

I wonder how christians explain all the gay animals out there, because there are a lot. Can animals sin? Do they end up in, say, doggie hell?

Linkat wrote:

I wanted to make one other statement in regard to conservative Christians and homosexuality. There is hope in conservatives accepting at least to some degree.

My husband is a conservative Christian - his up bringing. It could be difficult some times because he was so against such relationships. Me, I could not understand how something between two loving adults could be wrong. Well, God has a funny way of working. He paired up in sense my husband with a gay man (not as a couple of course). My husband's number 1 employee is gay and lives with his partner. This guy is so great as an employee (my husband relies on him to pretty much run things) and as a human being. As a result my husband is re-thinking his opinion. I think this is so awesome how much my husband really likes and respects this person.

As the saying goes - God works in mysterous ways.

That's great. However, most people wouldn't let someone being "a great person" affect their opinion of said person if he were gay. I've heard many times "oh, he's really <insert>, but.... he's gay."