correct sentences

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Can I say,

(a) They went/had gone for a trip last week.
I think it should be 'went' because 'last week' (time) is mentioned.

(b) The Nature Society has a trip to Green Forest.

I believe this sentence is wrong. Am I correct?

Many thanks.

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a) yes

b) the phrase "a trip to Green Forest" is correct, if there is a place called Green Forest.

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McTag wrote:

a) yes

b) the phrase "a trip to Green Forest" is correct, if there is a place called Green Forest.

Just to confirm regarding (a).

1. They had gone for a trip last week. (incorrect)
2. They went for a trip last week. (correct)

I was taught that when 'time' is mentioned, we should use the simple past, not the past perfect. .

However, a friend of mine says that I should use sentence #1, but I'm not convinced.

Many thanks.

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Yoong Liat wrote:

McTag wrote:

a) yes

b) the phrase "a trip to Green Forest" is correct, if there is a place called Green Forest.

Just to confirm regarding (a).

1. They had gone for a trip last week. (incorrect)
2. They went for a trip last week. (correct)

I was taught that when 'time' is mentioned, we should use the simple past, not the past perfect. .

However, a friend of mine says that I should use sentence #1, but I'm not convinced.

Many thanks.

It depends. (sorry!)

You could say "They had gone for a trip last week when their house was burgled"

But if it's a simple sentence you want, then "They went for a trip last week" is the correct one.

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Thanks, Mc Tag.

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YL-

Just get an idea between a capital letter and a full stop.

The first sentence in the Penelope chapter of Ulysses is over 2,000 words long and that was written by a serious expert.

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spendius wrote:

YL-

Just get an idea between a capital letter and a full stop.

The first sentence in the Penelope chapter of Ulysses is over 2,000 words long and that was written by a serious expert.

What do you mean?

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Yoong Liat wrote:

spendius wrote:
YL-

Just get an idea between a capital letter and a full stop.

The first sentence in the Penelope chapter of Ulysses is over 2,000 words long and that was written by a serious expert.

What do you mean?

Most of us have been trying for a longish time to figure out what Spendy's posts mean. He is quirky.

Spendy, do you really think it is appropriate to write in those terms to a student of English, an earnest one?

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I certainly do. I think an English student is well advised to study the best authors rather than taking notice of old fashioned pedantic fuddie-duddies recycling their own lessons.

And that goes treble for an earnest one.

Studying the best authors beats lessons from a schoolteacher any day of the week. Anyone who doesn't accept that is not earnest at all.

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Correct, but beside the point. This is not about philosophy, but everyday grammar.

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There's no such thing. Language is a living thing. Efficient communication of ideas fit for purpose.

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McTag wrote:

Correct, but beside the point. This is not about philosophy, but everyday grammar.

Hi Mc Tag

I agree with you. Why are so many grammar and English usage books written? One of the best is by Michael Swan.

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The Oxford English Dictionary, quoted by Fowler, gives-

Quote:

such portion of a composition or utterance as extends from one full stop to another.

I altered that by saying from a capital letter to a full stop.

Fowler offers the alternative-

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a combination of words in an analysable grammatical structure.

Fowler offers 10 definitions of which the first 7 are in line with the OED (popular) and the 8th and 9th in line with the grammarians.

The 10th is said to try to-

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reconcile the two by giving a grammarian's definition with a procrustean device for fitting it into apparently unconformable sentences of the 'popular' kind.

It goes on-

Quote:

It is more realistic to admit that the two may be irreconcilable; that what may be placed between one full stop and another may lack even an elliptical grammatical structure.

And just to complete your education on this point YL it adds-

Quote:

Modern writers show greater freedom than was once customary on what they place in that position. And what of the will to power? /Finally on one small point./ So then./ Now for his other arguments. These, taken from scholarly writings by contemporary men of letters, cannot be denied the right to be called sentences, but it would be straining language to say that they are elliptical in the sense that 'a subject or predicate or verb (or more)' must be 'understood'. Grammarians are free to maintain that no sequence of words can be called a sentence unless it has a grammatical structure, but they should recognize that, except as a term of their art, the word has broken the bounds they have set for it.

So, YL, you and Mac are grammarians and your agreed definition is tautological. As far as modern writing goes you are isolated pedants. I very much doubt that Richard Ellmann, Scott Moncrieff, Terence Kilmartin, Sir Henry Rider Haggard or Anthony Burgess would go into bat for your position and James Joyce certainly wouldn't.

Partridge declines to offer a definition at all.

Grammar is, obviously, necessary for legal prose.

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Wonderful. But in the context of the question (EFL), of limited worth.

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Mac-

There are others reading these posts. It is a public forum.

And besides- I don't know what you mean by "of limited worth". It is a meaningless expression. Everything is of limited worth except infinite worth and that it hard to come by.

I got in a mention of the OED and Fowler and Partridge. Some A2Kers might seek out those as a result. One could hardly be an "earnest" student of English without them. The same goes for Joyce and the other authors I mentioned. Who knows what any of those are worth to an A2Ker who is aware he doesn't know everything worth knowing. He might even learn not to use expressions like "of limited worth" which signify a distinct lack of earnestness in the use of our Mother Tongue as also does the designation of another poster as "quirky" which, again, is meaningless.

I don't think I am pushing my boat out too far if I say that an earnest student will find more worth in my post than in yours and I don't give two lollipop sticks held at 45 degrees and jerked up and down about students who are not earnest.

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You are familiar with the word disingenuous, I assume.
Come down off your high horse and join the rest of us.

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"While one who sings with his tongue on fire.
Gargles in the rat-race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers,
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in."

It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bledding). Bob Dylan.

On yer bike philistine.

If I joined the rest of "you" I would have to listen to what you had been eating and where you had been for the rest of my life. Fortunately there are some who are not members of your "us".

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Overblown nonsense. The bloke is only looking for some sensible help with his English.

There are other threads for your brainfarts.

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Mac-

You brought "earnestness" up-not me.

Was that an empty, self reassuring assertion as well?

I wouldn't join the "rest of you" under any circumstances short of physical suffering and I have arranged things in such a way that that is a very unlikely prospect.

With Mac marking your exam papers everybody gets a Grade A if they are as earnest as he is.

He's a dumber-downer.

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correct sentences

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