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Down with the Ten Commandments.

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2003 11:43 am
dyslexia wrote:
Claims that "nowhere in the Constitution is there a clause or amendment prohibiting a state judge from displaying a religious item." He implies that such an action, if not specifically prohibited by the Constitution, must be permitted.



Good point, Dys.

Nowhere in the Constitution is there a clause or amendment prohiiting a state judge from taking a **** in the middle of the courtroom rotunda whenever he/she chooses either -- but I am sure no one will argue that it must be permitted.
0 Replies
 
williamhenry3
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2003 10:55 pm
Frank<

As far as I know, no one has yet to defecate in the rotunda of Alabama's judicial building. You'll be the first to know should I hear such news Shocked
0 Replies
 
SealPoet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2003 08:11 am
I'm on the verge of demanding a separation of state from church. Think it would be a good thing to remove Flags from the pulpit and facades...
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2003 01:22 pm
On the "What harm does it do/no one should mind" perspective:

Assume a generic courthouse with a generic display (either wall-mounted or free standing) of the Ten Commandments.

Who is responsible for dusting this piece of "our" Judeo-Christian heritage? The regular courthouse cleaning staff--who are paid for with tax money? A Judeo-Christian God Squad of volunteers?

Why does the Judeo Christian God Squad get a particular piece of courthouse turf to maintain? Particularly a piece of turf that says "No other Gods are welcome?

Many of the people who mutter "no one should mind" are quite critical of Muslim theocracies ("There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is his proclaimed prophet.") which slight the rights of Christian and Jews.

Ethics and religion overlap--but they are separate ways of looking at the relationships among human beings.

A courthouse should be an ethical place--but not a religious place.

If the devil may quote scripture, what about rendering undo Caesar those things which are Caesars--and keeping the courthouses free of sentiments which can be attributed to any of the gods.
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CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2003 11:13 pm
Yup, it's still front-page news at CNN.com.
Alabama chief justice suspended
"State court to hold hearing on punishment for defying order to remove monument"

It includes an online survey:
"Should Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore remove the Ten Commandments monument from its public place in the state judicial building?"

Yes . . . . 49% . . . . 35258 votes
No . . . . 51% . . . . 36097 votes
Total: . . . . . . . . . 71355 votes


No wonder the story gets so much airplay -- any competition of evenly matched opponents makes for a suspenseful game!
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 06:58 am
It's not evenly matched at all. The Supreme Court has more votes than anybody in this.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 07:16 am
IMO the judge should see the inside of a jail cell. Not because I am against the ten commandments in the courthouse but because he who is supposed to uphold the law is flagrantly breaking it. .
0 Replies
 
Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 07:41 am
Setanta will probably have something to say about this, but my main objection is the assertion that these rules are the 'basis' of the common law of England (and by extension, that of the US). As I remember it the Romans first bought codified laws to the British Isles, the main legal 'creators' from then weren't Middle Eastern nomads, but the Northern Germans and the Normans. Just an observation.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 07:59 am
Yeehaw - suspended! I was getting really POd at the guy for his total shrugging off of the justice system he's supposed to uphold. (not exactly able to say what I'm feeling, haven't had my coffee yet....)
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 10:04 am
No matter what this guy thinks he is doing -- he has the laws of unintended consequences working against him big time.

Even some religious friends of mine see his "stand" as being contemptuous -- and several of them see the concerns of people fighting this monument in a clearer light than I've ever been able to share with them.

I think those of us on the other side of the question from him owe the man a huge debt of gratitude.

I raise my glass -- and I offer you -- Justice Roy Moore of Alabama and all he has done for our cause.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 10:10 am
I'll have a smoothie on that!
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 11:47 am
So has anyone else marveled at the comparison:
Judge Roy moore, and Judge Roy Bean? Smile
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 02:24 pm
Bush will probably nominate him for the supreme court if a seat becomes available. It will be in line with his religious initiative Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 02:58 pm
Nobody has addressed the fact that the so-called monument is butt ugly.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 03:44 pm
I object on the grounds that our Constitution mandates the separation of church and state. Religious tablets in public buildings breaches our freedom of religion - which also means freedom from religion. c.i.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 04:41 pm
LW - I was just about to ask if it was butt ugly! Not that I can imagine a statue of the ten commandments as anything else......


Does anyone else think it is a bit over the top to go around ripping old christian symbols out of old buildings, though?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 06:20 pm
Most people do not resent modest displays of most things in this world, but "right in your face" of anything becomes intrusive. If anybody wants the ten commandment tablets, they can have any size one in their home. c.i.
0 Replies
 
CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Aug, 2003 01:48 am
http://a799.g.akamai.net/3/799/388/b2cef86bc6429c/www.msnbc.com/news/1989047.jpg . http://images.ibsys.com/2002/1015/1720412_200X150.jpg
http://images.ibsys.com/2002/1022/1734749_200X150.jpg . http://images.ibsys.com/2003/0814/2406095_200X150.jpg
http://images.ibsys.com/2002/1002/1698173_200X150.jpg . http://a799.g.akamai.net/3/799/388/4f2e7b65e75516/www.msnbc.com/news/1990721.jpg


The Top Ten Media Circus Quotes:


Riley says Ten Commandments Fines Could Reach $1 Billion per Week
Quote:
According to the governor, the fines set to be levied against the state would increase week by week until, in five or six months, they would equal $1 billion per week if the monument is not moved. He says it is a price tag the taxpayers of Alabama simply can't afford to pay.

Aug 22 - Moore Suspended For Ten Days (Many links listed)
Quote:
Now that Moore has been suspended, a committee of nine people--called a judicial tribunal--will evaluate what happens next. The tribunal consists of judges and lay people. They will have three options of action available to them: They can take no further action, impose additional sanctions or they can permanently remove Moore from his position as chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court.
...
Morris Dees, from Southern Poverty Law Center, said that "I can't think of a more fitting and appropriate reason to remove Judge Moore, because he is the highest-ranking judge in the state (of Alabama)...and he openly violates the law."

Aug 19 - Supporters Make Plans To Protest Monument's Removal
Quote:
They pledge they'll have a continued 24 hour a day presence at the building until the monument is allowed to remain in its current location.

Aug 17 - Thousands Rally In Support Of Ten Commandments Monument
Quote:
Buses and vans from as far away as California brought Moore supporters to Montgomery for an enthusiastic rally on a hot and muggy morning. Evangelist Jerry Falwell and former presidential candidate Dr. Alan Keyes were among a half-dozen speakers urging the crowd to take back America from what Keyes described as the "unruly courts."
...
After the rally hundreds of people walked several blocks to the judicial building, where they lined up to view the monument inside. Some debated with about 35 atheists holding a counterprotest across the street.

Aug 15 - Jewish Leaders Rally Around Chief Justice
Quote:
Moore appeared with orthodox Jewish rabbis in Montgomery who support efforts to keep the monument in the state Supreme Court building.
"If our country does not return to the Biblical values and standards on which it was founded, who knows what could happen to us?" Rabbi Yehuda Levin said.

Aug 14 - Moore Refuses To Remove Ten Commandments Monument
Quote:
The monument contains two Ten Commandments tablets cut into the top of a large stone about the size of a washing machine. Along the sides are quotes from Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and other historical figures and documents concerning the influence of religion on American law.

Moore said he had the monument installed because he believes the Ten Commandments to be the moral foundation of American law. He also contended the federal judge had no authority to tell the state's chief justice to remove the monument.

Aug 5 - Judge Gives Chief Justice 15 Days To Remove Monument
Quote:
The Southern Poverty Law Center, Americans United for Separation of Church and State and the American Civil Liberties Union sued on behalf of three Alabama lawyers who said the monument violated their constitutional rights.

Several religious organizations have urged Christians to come to Montgomery and to kneel in prayer around the monument to block it from being removed.

"The sand is quickly moving through the hour glass as the federal court makes preparation to strip the moral foundation of our law from the Alabama Judicial Building," said John Giles, president of the Christian Coalition of Alabama. "The encroachment of the federal court on this matter will be met with considerable peaceful intervention. A line has been drawn in the sand and there will most likely be a showdown in Montgomery when the hour glass empties on Aug. 20."
...
"We would urge the chief justice not to turn an important, sacred religious symbol into a circus device," Khan said. "He ought to remove it as quietly and surreptitiously as he brought it in and save the Alabama public the divisiveness and rancor that would otherwise result."

July 28 - Protest Planned To Stop Removal Of Commandments Monument
Quote:
Officials with three Christian organizations are asking people to kneel in protest to prevent removal of the Ten Commandments monument from the lobby of the Alabama Judicial Building.
...
In a counterprotest, American Atheists rallied, urging support for the two court decisions and calling for the removal of what they call "religious zealotry" from government.

July 2 - Moore Says Appeals Court Ruling Violates Constitution
Quote:
"The state cannot and should not promote one religion over all others, even if it is the majority religion," American Civil Liberties Union attorney Robert Varley said.

May 1 - Ten Commandments Supporters, Opponents Hold Rally
Quote:
... a rally organizer called for a "crusade to reclaim America for Jesus Christ." "We brought our weapons of war with us," Ted Sobay, of Ozark, told about 350 people who joined in the march. "I've got the Bible in one hand and the Ten Commandments in the other."
0 Replies
 
CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Aug, 2003 02:05 am
"unruly courts"

"strip the moral foundation of our law"

"who knows what could happen to us?"

"weapons of war ... the Bible ... and the Ten Commandments"

(Sigh) . . . somebody pass the popcorn?

Apparently, the guy snuck it into the building in the middle of the night.
My standard answer: Publicity stunt.
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Aug, 2003 04:43 am
au1929 wrote:
Frank
Where in the ten comandments do you find any mention of Christianity, Judaism or any other religion?


You've got to be kidding! Haven't you ever READ the first four C's?:

Deuteronomy 5
6 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
7 "You shall have no other gods before me.
8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
11 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
12 "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.
16 "Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
0 Replies
 
 

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