Down with the Ten Commandments.

I am an agnostic -- and being an agnostic means acknowledging that I do not know if there is a God, gods -- or if there are no gods.

What would make you suppose I would not be bothered by Christians and Jews imposing their god and his ridiculous demands on us?





Well, that is a rather poor guess -- in my estimation. My guess is that most of them would mind -- especially considering the first few of these "commandments."

Why is it necessary for the religious people to be so "in your face?"

Keep your religion to yourselves -- and leave the nation out of it, because those of us who are not of your religion -- or who are not religious -- do not want you forcing your bullshit on us.

Especially since it is so unnecessary.

Frank
Where in the ten comandments do you find any mention of Christianity, Judaism or any other religion?

Frank
I too lean towards agnosticism. However, I do hope there is a God. And I don't object on religious grounds. However, if I did object it would be based on separation of Church and state.

The question is about whether placques of the the commandments should be removed from public buildings.

It seems to me that any nation calling itself a democracy does not operate through "commandments" but through laws arrived at by social consensus. Such placques are therefore nothing more than religious symbols like any other, and the content is irrelevant.

The question of whether religious symbols should decorate public buildings remains a matter for debate at the local funding level.

Kill, steal, false witness, and covet thy neighbors ass and servants too.
Isn't this exactly what politics is all about?!
(Esp. when it comes to Iraqi oil, as merely one small example).

I'm neither atheist nor agnostic, but I find the ten commandments
to be incomplete, narrow, superficial and unrelated to quite many issues
in life, and find far better guides in my own conscience, empathy and
honest understanding.

Also, there are times when one should thoughtfully and deliberately break
any of the commandments, so I don't think such black-and-white thinking
is healthy -- physically, emotionally, spiritually, or socially.

So to be fair, any public institution that allows the ten commandments to
be displayed should also allow anyone's personal commandments to be
published just as easily. Including Satan-worshippers, to get all sides of
the story in plain view where people can freely think, decide, and choose.
Some people agree with and some people object to the commandments,
therefore other objectionable things should be allowed as well.

The foundation of our society is based on capitalism and commercialism,
so lie, cheat, steal, kill, covet, control, manipulate and make graven
images all over the place -- whatever it takes to make a profit.
I argue that the ten commandments are nice lip-service for public figures
to say, just to soothe the sheep, but in real life our society actually
operates on vastly different principles. A public institution that displays
the commandments is misrepresenting how things truly get done.

I'm just trying to be honest here. The world is not fair or nice, but for us
to deal with it competently we must acknowledge and see it as it is.
My greatest faith, hope, ability and strength is in the truth.
So let's not pretend the commandments are being used, or pertinent,
or display such hypocrisy just to please those who are Christian among us.

Numbers 1-4 have no relevence, and make no sense to me. Does number 5 include mothers and fathers who are abusive and dysfunctional?

As far as #2, graven images, if that were followed, it would put a lot of museums and religious artifact companies out of business.

As far as coveting is concerned, it's, IMO, ok to covet, if that coventing engenders the motivation for the person to succeed. Remember that wanting something does not mean stealing it from somebody else.

For a buch of ethical rules developed by primitive peoples, the 10 Commantments are not bad, and many have implications that are relevent today. The others, well, they were written in different times!

Perhaps the plaques with the Ten Commandments act as a beacon so God can find the courthouse? How does this fit into the Graven Image situation?

I find it interesting that those who are for displaying the Ten Commandments argue" Other People Shouldn't Mind. Some lip service is devoted to our Judeo-Christian heritage, but "Other People Shouldn't Mind" is the big gun.

Observation: Cases tried in the courthouse indicate that murder, rape, envy, disrespect for parents, theft and all the other crimes on the docket must also be a part of our Judeo-Christian heritage.

People who get steamed up about the Ten Commandments are like the people who get steamed up over a woman's right to choose. Both issues have become so politicized that rational debate is impossible.

And besides, the Ten Commandments controversy, as well as abortion rights, are in fact non-issues which detract politicians and the citizenry from real issues such as the war on terror, the crumbling economy in our country, tax increases, etc.

They take energy away from these important issues that might better be solved if so much time wasn't wasted on monitoring the morality of others.

And what happened to the 11th thru 15th commandments? Ooops, I'm sorry, Mel Brooks broke those.

Logically:

A courthouse with a Ten Commandments is holier than a courthouse without such decoration.

Therefore, courthouses are holier than all other buildings without ethical wallpaper.

Therefore the American Sue Mentality was created and is carried out on sanctified ground?

Yes, someone suing someone for letting their dog poop on their grass must be carried out on sanctified ground. Which commandment covers that one?

News item:

Monument's removal ordered

By Todd Kleffman
Montgomery Advertiser

The clock officially started ticking Tuesday for Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore when a federal judge gave him 15 days to remove his Ten Commandments monument from the state Judicial Building.

U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson set an Aug. 20 deadline for the monument's removal and suggested he would impose hefty fines against the state if Moore fails to comply with the order.
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For remainder of story see www.montgomeryadvertiser.com;Wednesday, Aug. 6, 2003.

IMO, Ten Commandments do not bother anyone. Some people are just bored, and they want to be in the middle of the public scandal. The fact of the Ten Commandments appearing in the public place does not make them mandatory for the people that do not believe in God (except, maybe, "Thou shalt not kill" and "Thou shalt not steal" that are enforced by governmental laws in any part of the world). The active anti-Commandments' campaigners just claim some media attention to their mediocre persons.

That is a very narrow-minded opinion, Steissd.

My guess -- none of the freedom loving people would be so blase about an atheist judge posting a monument suggesting we "make our own laws and screw the laws of these fictional gods."

And I would agree with those who would oppose such a thing -- just as I oppose the Ten Suggestions monument.

Mr. Apisa, I hope, I must not prove that I am not a Muslim. But thirty percent of the inhabitants of the town I live in, actually are. And they have a mosque, and some Koranic verses appear on its outer walls that can be seen from the central bus station. Since I know that none of these specific verses calls for terrorism, hatred toward Jews/Christians or any other illegal things (some Israeli of Iraqi origin translated them for me), I do not object to appearance of these verses in the public place, despite my being a Christian that considers Koran to be a false prophecy. I think that Ten Commandments that do not call for hatred and violence cannot bug anyone either, even the atheists, agnostics or heathens.

Try to appreciate the difference, Steissd, between being able to see something written on the door of a church from a bus stop -- and having a gigantic rock rendition of the Ten Commandments in the lobby of a government building.




I understand that is what you think -- and you certainly are entitled to think whatever you want.

But I can assure you that you think incorrectly on this issue.

The Ten Commandments engraved on a huge monument in the lobby of a government building bugs the living **** out of me -- and out of many, many people in this country -- INCLUDING SOME VERY DEDICATED JEWS AND CHRISTIANS.

Heathen - One who is regarded as irreligious, uncivilized, or unenlightened.

I am not atheist, agnostic, or heathen but I do object to the Ten Commandments. IMO, there are times when each one of them should rightfully, deliberately be broken.
Secondly, the notion of having commandments initially sets up a situation that is itself highly objectionable to me.

Please do not say "Ten Commandments do not bother anyone", because other people know their own minds and should speak for themselves.

US District Judge Myron Thompson today lifted his previous stay and ordered Alabama Chief Justice Crazy Roy Moore to remove his 5,280-pound Ten Commandments monument from the Alabama state judicial building.
Thompson made it clear that if Moore does not comply with his order, he will not hesitate to find Moore in contempt of court, writing that "the court could levy substantial fines against Chief Justice Moore in his official capacity and, thus, against the State of Alabama itself, until the monument is removed."

He went on to say the fine might start at $5000 per day and double each week until the monument is removed. I did some figuring and found that the fine could exceed the size of Alabama's state budget in under 4 months, $100 billion in under 22 weeks and would exceed the gross domestic product of the United States in just over 28 weeks.
;)Moore faught the law and the law won

not to dispute Steissd's claim that its all nice and fair and no one should complain, turnabout does not seem to fit in the christian tradition:
Salt Lake City removed its Ten Commandments monument from public property after a federal appeals court ruled that it could remain only if the religious group Summum was allowed to erect a similar monument denoting its Egyptian beliefs.

Claims that "nowhere in the Constitution is there a clause or amendment prohibiting a state judge from displaying a religious item." He implies that such an action, if not specifically prohibited by the Constitution, must be permitted. Far from it: The federal courts consistently have interpreted the First Amendment's Establishment Clause to mean that government officials may neither grant preference to one religious tradition over another, nor grant preference to religion in general over no religion.

Thus, the courts have struck down "moments of silence" in the public schools where there is clear religious intent (1985); spoken football game prayers over public school intercoms (2000); intercom prayers to captive audiences of public school students, and the use of Bible classes to proselytize public school students (1996); public-school graduation prayers delivered by a clergy member (1992); and teacher-led prayer and Bible readings in the public schools (1962/1963).