Mysteries to me

Is that what you're up to then? Trying to convince others that you're right? (In that case I would agree with your husband, as you apparently have no rational argument to make. :wink: )

Well...let me put it this way - then I am letting it lie...Maybe...you just never know. If I truly believe what I am saying, then how much could I say I was showing the love of God if I did not make my best effort? If I believe that there is a Heaven and a Hell...and if Heaven is living eternity in peace and joy and Hell is an eternity of darkness and misery then shouldn't I try to let others know? Shouldn't I try to make them understand and come to know that there is a way to know you can have that gift? If I didn't believe it, why would I waste my breath (typing) coming here and being harassed? Because it is very obvious I am outwitted here and it seems mostly in the minority.

I read the threads and am totally dumbfounded by the amazing depth of logic and knowledge. But - though I may not be logical or brilliant (I am smart and quite sharp - if I do say so myself) I mostly care about people. I just think if I say I believe something - I should practice it and try to help people understand what I do. If I didn't I would not give a lick what you thought. So that being said - I am not here to offend or debate really. Just to clarify and try to help someone feel the way I do. I love God - I am blessed by him. I want others to know it as well...

Most think that is a bunch of sentimental schmuck...but, well...it is, I guess...I gush about my kids, because I love them so much...why wouldn't it be the same about anything I love?

So I'm just going to say what I want and correct me please if you have already discussed this. If I can sin in Heaven, and if there are wars in Heaven, then, why oh why, do I want to go there? It's just like Earth.

What if you can sin in heaven... but there are no wars.

That would be a heaven worth going to.

ebrown_p wrote:

What if you can sin in heaven... but there are no wars.

That would be a heaven worth going to.

So do you think that allowing murder and theft and rape could never lead to fighting and revenge, and ultimately, to war? A rather naive view, isn't it?

I have never been that tempted by murder or rape ... and in heaven theft would probably be unnecessary (although I am sure it could be arranged for someone who really enjoyed it).

I was thinking more along the lines of a little harmless fornication and drunkenness.

ebrown_p wrote:

I have never been that tempted by murder or rape ... and in heaven theft would probably be unnecessary (although I am sure it could be arranged for someone who really enjoyed it).

I was thinking more along the lines of a little harmless fornication and drunkenness.

You might think drunkenness is harmless until your best friend is run down by a drunk driver.

We could fill many volumes with the harm caused by drunken people. Are you unaware of any of this?

real life wrote:

ebrown_p wrote:

I have never been that tempted by murder or rape ... and in heaven theft would probably be unnecessary (although I am sure it could be arranged for someone who really enjoyed it).

I was thinking more along the lines of a little harmless fornication and drunkenness.

You might think drunkenness is harmless until your best friend is run down by a drunk driver.

We could fill many volumes with the harm caused by drunken people. Are you unaware of any of this?

You don't get it... we are talking about Heaven here!

Heaven is where you can indulge in drunkenness without worrying about running down anyone.

On Earth, when you get drunk you run the risk of hurting someone... but not in Heaven.

My main point in this thread has been about free will. I think it is inconceivable that the people in heaven lose the ability to sin. If you can not sin in heaven... then you have lost your humanity. It won't be you that is in heaven... it will only be a shell of the former you.

People without the ability to sin aren't people, they are robots.

... if you by "laying aside your desires" you mean that I am willing to deny myself a pleasure I would enjoy.

If by "laying aside your desires" you mean something akin to a lobotomy... where I would excise the desires that are part of being human, then I disagree.

I am faithful to my wife because I love her-- not because I no longer have the desire for more sex. The fact that she is faithful to me-- even though she has the opportunity to be with others-- means all the more.

Being married to a robot-- who was unable to hurt me, wouldn't mean nearly as much.

Love only has meaning if it is a choice. Without the ability to be unfaithful, faithfulness means nothing.