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Wed 25 Jul, 2007 07:58 am
Pump your anti-war congressmen and senators to hold themselves accountable for the predictable, historical outcome of their current path. Millions dead, regions left in total chaos. Learn the lessons of Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia, and eastern Thailand. Finish the job, or be accountable for the ensuing losses.
Vietnam is now a trading partner and we have full relations with them.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the US job that wasn't finished in Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand. Is the US now responsible for Syria and Palestine because they are near Iraq? It already seems Bush is failing quite well with troops in Iraq. I'm not sure how he would fair worse by pulling troops out.
Quote:Thank you all very much. Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.
Remarks by the President from the USS Abraham Lincoln
At Sea Off the Coast of San Diego, California
May 1, 2003
old europe wrote:Quote:Thank you all very much. Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.
Remarks by the President from the USS Abraham Lincoln
At Sea Off the Coast of San Diego, California
May 1, 2003
His Daddy forgot to finish the job in 1991. History cannot be allowed to repeat in this case.
cjhsa wrote:old europe wrote:Quote:Thank you all very much. Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.
Remarks by the President from the USS Abraham Lincoln
At Sea Off the Coast of San Diego, California
May 1, 2003
His Daddy forgot to finish the job in 1991. History cannot be allowed to repeat in this case.
Sure it can.
Making grand pronouncements doesn't accomplish much.
Cycloptichorn
I will personally hold Cyclo responsibible the the aftermath of leaving Iraq prematurely. Anybody else here up to task?
Pappy Bush had a lot more sense than his idiot-child son who is now in the White House. In
A World Transformed, Alfred Knopf, New York, 1998, the elder Bush, writing with Brent Scowcroft, who had been his national security advisor, wrote:
Quote:Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under the circumstances, there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. (emphasis added)
Yes, but Bush said more than four years ago that the battle of Iraq was over, and the United States had prevailed. Sounds like victory to me.
Of course "victory" was redefined later ("once we have found the WMD", "once we have found Saddam Hussein", "once Saddam Hussein has been put to justice", "once the Iraqis had free elections", "once Iraq has a democratic constitution", etc. etc.)
But feel free to tell us how you would define "victory in Iraq". At least at the moment.
I could give a **** about UN mandates...
cjhsa wrote:I will personally hold Cyclo responsibible the the aftermath of leaving Iraq prematurely. Anybody else here up to task?
Does this mean we can hold you personally responsible for all the deaths and injuries and costs that are presently occurring?
I will be more than happy to send you a bill for my tax dollars that have gone to support this war that I have opposed since the beginning. Or does the responsibility issue only apply to others?
cjhsa wrote:I will personally hold Cyclo responsibible the the aftermath of leaving Iraq prematurely. Anybody else here up to task?
Oh really, tough guy? How do you plan on doing so?
You're a laff riot
You forget that we personally hold you, and other warmongerers, responsible for getting into Iraq in the first place. Blame lies with you.
Cycloptichorn
If we leave - watch what happens. I guarantee I am not wrong in my assessment.
As far as war mongering goes, we were a decade overdue in Iraq - which I've said before. Pappy and his stupid UN mandates got us stuck there in the first place, not me. It should have been over in 1992.
cjhsa wrote:If we leave - watch what happens. I guarantee I am not wrong in my assessment.
As far as war mongering goes, we were a decade overdue in Iraq - which I've said before. Pappy and his stupid UN mandates got us stuck there in the first place, not me. It should have been over in 1992.
Oh, we know there will be massacres. We know this. There's nothing we can do to stop that from happening. Only the Iraqis can stop their fighting.
You're an idiot if you think the war
would have been over in 1992. Hasn't this insurgency tought you anything?
Cycloptichorn
Re: Victory in Iraq is Vital
cjhsa wrote:Pump your anti-war congressmen and senators to hold themselves accountable for the predictable, historical outcome of their current path. Millions dead, regions left in total chaos. Learn the lessons of Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia, and eastern Thailand. Finish the job, or be accountable for the ensuing losses.
Just curious, did you pump your pro-war congressmen 4 years ago to hold themselves accountable for the predictable, historical outcome?
Yes, what the USA can conquer should be done at once.
Iraq: The Surge Is Working
The president just concluded a bang-bang speech on the progress of the surge in Iraq. I've been watching it while working here on the closed-captioning, reading some of it, and just really kicking butt with this speech, very upbeat and positive.
J. R. Dunn today in the American Thinker, the surge is working, it is succeeding, and everybody is aware of it, and so how is that going to be dealt with? It's going to be ignored, says Mr. Dunn at the AmericanThinker.com today. The results are being ignored now. "Virtually no media source or Democratic politician is willing to admit that the situation on the ground has changed dramatically over the past three months. Coalition efforts have undergone a remarkable reversal of fortune, a near-textbook example as to how an effective strategy can overcome what appear to be overwhelming drawbacks," not the least of which is a major political party in the United States. "The Coalition has left the treadmill in which one step of progress seemed to unavoidably lead to two steps back. It requires some time to discover the proper strategy in any war," but it appears that it has been reached here. I gave you all the details yesterday about the Sunnis and the Shi'a getting together, 25 different tribes, people getting fed up with Al-Qaeda, even low level Al-Qaeda members in Iraq becoming informants on the bad guys, upset with the barbaric nature of their behavior.
"Someday 2006," Mr. Dunn writes, "may be seen as Iraq's 1943. It appears that Gen. David Petreaus has discovered the correct strategy for Iraq: engaging the Jihadis all over the map as close to simultaneously as possible. Keeping them on the run constantly, giving them no place to stand, rest or refit. ... We will see more of this in the weeks ahead. The Jihadis have come up with no effective counterstrategy, and the old methods have begun to lose mana. The last massive truck-bomb attack occurred not in Baghdad, but in a small Diyala village that defied Al-Queda. An insurgency in the position of using its major weapons to punish noncombatants is not in a winning situation. You will look long and hard to find any of this in the legacy media." It isn't there. It cannot be reported that the surge is succeeding, so what will be focused on, ladies and gentlemen, is how the political situation is falling apart, they're not making progress and so forth.
So whatever the good news is, it's like the Drive-Bys and the Democrat Party find a way to avoid it. Their worst nightmare is for this news to start trickling out for the Democrat Party.
cjhsa wrote:"Someday 2006," Mr. Dunn writes, "may be seen as Iraq's 1943. It appears that Gen. David Petreaus has discovered the correct strategy for Iraq
So Mr. Dunn is saying that the war will be over by 2008?
Okay.
(And what's the plan if in 2008, victory will be "just around the corner"?)
parados wrote:Vietnam is now a trading partner and we have full relations with them.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the US job that wasn't finished in Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand. Is the US now responsible for Syria and Palestine because they are near Iraq? It already seems Bush is failing quite well with troops in Iraq. I'm not sure how he would fair worse by pulling troops out.
According to some on the left,Bush IS responsible for Syria and Palestine.
They blame him because he refuses to talk to Syria,they blame him for the Palestinian problem because he supports Israel and refused to deal with the Hamas govt of Palestine.
Are you now saying he ISNT responsible for Syria and Palestine?
Quote:Victory in Iraq will mark the beginning of the end of the war on terror.
Tony Snow, White House press secretary, in:
Victory in Iraq is vital - The President has weakened al-Qaeda, made USA safer from attack
Kill all islamofascist allah pukes - wherever they reside - before they kill you.
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