Well that's just RUDE!

Linkat, that's a riot, but that would just make them even more curious

These people have no fear and they all have guns, not to mention, I think they're nuts

If I went running out screaming with a bloody axe, she would most likely come over and ask what I'm doing

Then answer - just taking care of a few problems. Better yet - mumble something along the lines of "got rid of the noisy sob"

Why don't you just write out an itinerary of all your scheduled jobs for the day, and hand it to them as a mark of consideration on your part, so they won't miss out on anything.

Just an aside, bearing in mind our last meeting (bra thread?). You are fully clothed when you're outside, aren't you? Otherwise, I would be slightly tempted to even have a peek myself.

Love it!

That's not a bad idea and I wonder if they would actually get the hint.

I'm always fully clothed when I go outside and maybe that's the problem

I'm reading this post a little late. I didn't see it before now. But I took my son out to brunch one morning(my daughter spent the night at a friends) and when we sat at the table I told him to take his hat off because it was rude to wear a hat inside a restaraunt and at the table. Then he looked around and there were about 10 other grown men with hats on.

so, if 10 other men jumped off the brookln bridge, you son should too? :wink:

I better question is if one person jumped off a bridge, should you go find ten to jump in after him?

We shouldn't make people jump.

T
K
O

Then stop sneaking up behind them.

Re my earlier comment about women wearing hats in restaurants - and good ones at that - in the fifties, here's one article that seems apropo.
I was eight in 1949-50 when we lived in NYC and I have a child's eye memory of some of those restaurants and the people in them. So, I was looking for photographs...

http://kuki.deprada.net/?p=35

(My point being that hats in a restaurant are a matter of the social mores of the time.)

Anybody know the purpose or origin of a man taking off his hat in front of a woman? I mean, it's supposed to be a sign of respect, but how or why?

Ditto with rising when she enters a room - lol. Imagine if that went on today

actually, I know a few men that do that....

I can't provide a source for this, but i had read--so many years ago that i can't cite it--that the custom of uncovering arises from the days in which men at arms either wore a mail hood or an iron cap (helmet). Removing the iron cap exposes one's head, and is a sign of submission to a higher authority--one would remove one's iron cap in the presence of one's liege lord or of the King, etc. Thus, uncovering became a sign of respect, and was transferred to women.

Many of the marks of respect which are shown to women mimic those which were shown to a liege lord or a monarch. If a lord or king entered a room, everyone rose because it was considered improper to be seated while the king stood, or to sit without the prior, explicitly stated permission of the lord or king--and that was transferred to women, as a mark of elaborate respect.

It is worth noting that class distinctions were always in evidence. No one rose when a house maid, or cook or washerwoman entered the room, or uncovered for them if encountered in the street. Below a certain class level, those women were simply invisible--they didn't count. Equally, failing to display such courtesy to a woman of an equivalent or lower social class would be an intentional and grave insult.

Thank you - that makes sense... I have read about the deference shown to Lords and Kings, etc.... wonder when it was transferred to women, and why.

Wow.

Haven't looked over the entire thread, but this has certainly gone on longer than I thought it would.

One thing that keeps surprising me is some people responses that kinda sorta boil down to....well, why should I do it for them? what am I going to get out of it?


see....that sort of the whole point. It IS stepping outside of what might not be best for you, but makes someone elses day more pleasant, or even that moment.

I notice also there were a lot of mentions of things that boil down to poor customer service, which may or may not have anything to do with the person you are directly dealing with.

For instance, and not picking on you mame, but your situation made me think....I can't remember ever standing in a line at a bank, or other place where there's cash registers let's say, and seeing people standing around not helping because they were on break. When people take their break, they go to another part of the building. At least that's been my experience. Also, if the line is long, and there's only 2 people when there should be 5, well, that's not those 2 people fault. If they are employees, they can't make the decision to hire more people, or make more people appear that very second. When I see customers being ugly to the workers because the line is long, I'll make a special effort to tell the worker when they're taking care of me that I realize they can't help what's going on. Now, I will seek out the manager, but that's a different story.

People who stand in line making loud comments and rolling their eyes are dolts.

When another customer tries to engage me in their snotty comments, I'll tell them right off that I have no control over what's going on, and they should go look for the manager. I've never yet had that person go do that. They just stand in line with their back to me, which is what I wanted in the first place.

One time I was in a line, and the person in front of me, with his little basket full of junk food was just livid because the person 2 or 3 places in front of us was causing a holdup (not on purpose, just some glitch) He sighed and looked at his watch and glared....like that was going to do something. When he got to the front of the line, he just blasted off a the poor cashier, who just happened to be a young lady who was obviously VERY flustered at the problem she'd just had, and was apologizing profusely to everyone. This (and I'll say it ) slob just started telling her off like she was ruining his life...I don't remember what he actually said, but I remember what I said....
I told him...."This girl can't say this to you because she's working here, but I can....you're just a big asshole that gets off on yelling at people who can't help the situation. You just can wait to get home and park your fat ass on the couch and cram it with pork rinds, can you?"

yeah, I guess that was rude, but it was defending someone who couldn't defend herself.



I don't know....I just don't see the hardship of taking that little step....

then again, a lot of people apparantly don't know how to use a public restroom without difiling it, so I guess some of those little niceities are really expecting too much.

Why should you?.....No reason....but, why don't you anyway?

I suspect that it began fairly early on--if you want to suck up to the Boss, make nice with the Boss' wife, although not too nice. None of these are attributes of Roman society, other than that slaves were not permitted to sit in the presence of free men and women. These customs derive from the Gothic age. However, it might be possible to pinpoint with a certain accuracy when it became stylish to show an elaborate courtesy to women. I don't say that this was origin, but this may have been when it became fashionable, and wide-spread:

Eleanor of Aquitaine inherited from her father nearly half of what is today France--in fact, her inheritance made her more wealthy and powerful than the King of France. So, when she was 15 and her father died, she was rather quickly married off by the King of France, Louis the fat, to his son, Louis the Young, who later became King Louis VII. Later, much later, disillusioned (she complained that she thought she was marrying a King, and instead married a monk), the marriage was annulled by the Pope (you can bet some money changed hands), and then she was married to Henry Plantagenet--who became King Henry II of England.

Eleanor was a "free spirit," and had a bad reputation with the French (the Aquitainians did not think of themselves as French, and tended to look down on the Franks--the French--as ill-bred German peasants. Despite their own German ancestry, they saw themselves as heritors of the courtly life of the old Roman Empire in the west. Their notion of morality was considerably different than that of the French, whom they saw as hag-ridden by priests and monks.

Eleanor found Louis boring (he was positively smitten with her, even though she embarrassed him with her dress and behavior), and spent a good deal of her time in Aquitaine, usually at court in Orleans, where many young nobles and knights vied for the attention of the most powerful woman in Europe, still a comely young woman. She encouraged poets to write about courtly love, and put it about that being a man at arms was not such a great accomplishment, but being a man at arms, and a poet, and a devoted servant of women--was a great accomplishment. The poet Bernart de Ventadorn became famous through her sponsorship, and he naturally wrote on subjects which interested and pleased Eleanor. The famous poetess of the middle ages, Marie de France, is also believed to have been patronized by Eleanor and King Henry.

The term chivalry comes from an old french word, chevalerie, which means "horsemanship." If you were going to be a successful man at arms, you had to be good with a horse. One of Eleanor's retainers, William Marshall, is considered to have been the greatest knight of his age (knights were the professional athletes of the day, and winning tournaments was an advertisement for those who were in hope of rich employment), and is on record for having won more than 500 formal, single combats and tournaments.

But in Eleanor's conception of courtly love, the accomplished knight must also be gently spoken, hopefully a poet, and always deferential to and considerate of "ladies" (remember, no maids, cooks or washerwomen). Eleanor was sufficiently sophisticated, stylish, young and beautiful that many women of high degree in Europe wished to imitate her--even if they secretly despised her for her "loose" ways. Within a very short period of time--and the evidence from the flourishing of poetry on the subject of courtly love is that it occurred within the decade between Eleanor's marriage and leaving with King Louis to go on crusade--the idea that chivalry also included good manners and respect for women spread very widely.

Of course, that does not mean that there were bores and brutes around, or that everyone in Europe was suddenly smitten with the idea. But the literature of France and England shows that the idea spread quickly and took root deeply in the popular imagination (at least the imagination of the literate, or those who could afford to pay someone to read to them). Chivalry came to mean good manners, as well as good horsemanship and military skills. These days, chivalry only retains the meaning of good manners, and respectful treatment of women.

i may be sitting outside in the backyard this afternoon with my shirt unbuttoned - is that acceptable :wink: ?
i might wear a hat for sun protection !
hbg

Of course, that is what hats are made for....to wear outside.

"in the olden days" - before central heating - canadian men would often wear a hat inside during the wintertime ; just like women would wear some warm head-covering .
i've also seen pictures of men and women wearing special "inside" gloves - the glove fingers were cut off - to keep themselves warm .
don't know if i can find a pix .
hbg

I recall learning in college that the 'salute' is a descendant of the action it took to open one's visor on medieval helmets, 'specially full plate.

Cycloptichorn