6  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 10:52 am
McGentrix wrote:

Another Failed Presidency
Quote:
He doesn't have an American narrative that draws upon the rest of us. All successful presidents have a narrative about the American character that intersects with their own where they display a command of history and reveal an authenticity at the core of their personality that resonates in a positive endearing way with the majority of Americans. ...

But not this president. It's not so much that he's a phony, knows nothing about economics, is historically illiterate, and woefully small minded for the size of the task-- all contributory of course. It's that he's not one of us. And whatever he is, his profile is fuzzy and devoid of content, like a cardboard cutout made from delaminated corrugated paper. Moreover, he doesn't command our respect and is unable to appeal to our own common sense. His notions of right and wrong are repugnant and how things work just don't add up. They are not existential. His descriptions of the world we live in don't make sense and don't correspond with our experience.



I sincerely hope you don't buy into this crock. I don't know what "one of us" means to the author, but I have no doubt that the president is, more than the last several presidents, one of us. Leaving aside the absurdity of most of this strange proclamation, especially the laughable accusation of historical illiteracy (really? after the last 8 years?), the author is clearly appealing to something other than reason here.
  3  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 11:23 am
From McG's post:
Quote:
It's that he's not one of us.


Small minded racial bigots still abound in this country.
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 12:13 pm
Quote:
what the fuck is a "little dictator complex?


Napoleon?
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  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 04:46 pm
Quote:


...But not this president. It's not so much that he's a phony, knows nothing about economics, is historically illiterate, and woefully small minded for the size of the task-....


why is hunt talking about bush now ??
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  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 05:21 pm
It's full of crock, because:
Quote:
But not this president. It's not so much that he's a phony, knows nothing about economics, is historically illiterate, and woefully small minded for the size of the task-- all contributory of course. It's that he's not one of us. And whatever he is, his profile is fuzzy and devoid of content, like a cardboard cutout made from delaminated corrugated paper.

So is this writer's statements fuzzy; it's devoid of content. It's not anything about "corrugated paper." What is this guy trying to say?

Quote:
Moreover, he doesn't command our respect and is unable to appeal to our own common sense.

Why does this write think he commands our respect? This writer has no common sense, has written absolutely nothing to support his thesis, nor has he explained why he thinks Americans have "common sense." Many so-called Americans still think ObamaCare is about death panels.

Quote:
His notions of right and wrong are repugnant and how things work just don't add up. They are not existential. His descriptions of the world we live in don't make sense and don't correspond with our experience.

If this writer doesn't have the balls to identify why Obama's notions of right and wrong are repugnant, and his ability at common sense and logic got lost in his own rhetoric. But I'm sure most conservatives believe the same and say the same without understanding what they write or say.

All they know how to do this bitch without so much as identifying what they are bitching about by using generalities that has no support. Typical conservative meme.
View Profile okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 01:38 am
cicerone imposter wrote:

From McG's post:
Quote:
It's that he's not one of us.


Small minded racial bigots still abound in this country.

Is that why you oppose the Republican Party, it now has a black man as chairman? Must be the reason!! Small minded racial bigotry, that fits. You should be ashamed of yourself. It won't be long before Eric Holder is investigating your bigotry.
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 02:16 am
his piece is absent of any real suggestions of what obama should do.

damn it. this is why the internet is just as inefficient as the old underground papers. anybody can do it and most suck horribly at it.

those that don't are few and far between. just like real journalists, commentators and analysts.

  2  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 05:19 am
The first thing Obama should do is tell congress to STFU.
They are the ones destroying any chance of any meaningful reform.

If you listen to what they are saying, there will be a public option, there wont be a public option, there will be a bipartisan bill, there wont be a bipartisan bill, it wont cost very much, it might cost alot, it wont raise taxes, it might raise taxes, etc.

Congress, including Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer, should just shut up and let Obama do the talking.
After all, he is the one that was elected bedause people actually listened to him and believed him.
Now, he isnt saying much and is letting Congress do all the talking.
If they would shut up, and let him speak, it might help.
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 07:00 am
mysteryman wrote:

The first thing Obama should do is tell congress to STFU.
They are the ones destroying any chance of any meaningful reform.

If you listen to what they are saying, there will be a public option, there wont be a public option, there will be a bipartisan bill, there wont be a bipartisan bill, it wont cost very much, it might cost alot, it wont raise taxes, it might raise taxes, etc.

Congress, including Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer, should just shut up and let Obama do the talking.
After all, he is the one that was elected bedause people actually listened to him and believed him.
Now, he isnt saying much and is letting Congress do all the talking.
If they would shut up, and let him speak, it might help.

I agree and I think that's what he is going to do (maybe not in those exact words) next week. I actually appreciate and respect the fact that he gave Congress the chance to formulate the plan independent of him, other than his statement of broad principles, even though it has allowed his critics an opening to call him weak and a "failure". But Congress couldn't do it, so now he has to step up and show some leadership.

And for all those that have been certain that Obama has somehow already failed as president, I just want to say that when I voted for him I voted for a slow, deliberate, level headed leader and I feel confidant that's what I got. Yes, it leaves the ditto heads to fill the silence sometimes, but it all works out in the end. I still believe he can do this, even though I'm pretty sure that the final plan will not be what I would have preferred.
View Profile okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 09:31 am
But its Congress that writes the legislation. And if they give confusing messages, it tells us something, it shows they are confused and without direction. Let them keep talking, because I think the people are learning alot. Obama can talk too about specifics, which is not his area of expertise, so the more he does of that, the better for the opposition as well.

Information is on the conservative side, so the more details that emerge, the more people will be opposed, unless by some miracle the legislation becomes reasonable, but if it does, the extreme left will turn against it and it will go down in flames as well.
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 09:36 am
okie wrote:

But its Congress that writes the legislation. And if they give confusing messages, it tells us something,

Yes, it does. It tells us there are 535 of them (well, maybe 534 now).

Quote:
it shows they are confused and without direction.

Yes. Or rather, with multiple directions.

Quote:
Let them keep talking, because I think the people are learning alot. Obama can talk too about specifics, which is not his area of expertise, so the more he does of that, the better for the opposition as well.

Indeed, the more your lot talk the more reasonable Obama will sound.
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 09:36 am
okie wrote:

But its Congress that writes the legislation. And if they give confusing messages, it tells us something, it shows they are confused and without direction. Let them keep talking, because I think the people are learning alot. Obama can talk too about specifics, which is not his area of expertise, so the more he does of that, the better for the opposition as well.

Information is on the conservative side, so the more details that emerge, the more people will be opposed, unless by some miracle the legislation becomes reasonable, but if it does, the extreme left will turn against it and it will go down in flames as well.


Lol. 'Information' is on your side? What does that even mean?

And, what is it you think the 'people are learning' through this debate? What a vague post.

Cycloptichorn
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 09:53 am
okie loves to talk in generalities and fear-mongering. okie has never produced evidence for any of his opinions. His imagination runs wild, and he sees a boogeyman around himself 100% of the time.

Hopeless dupe!
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  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:00 am
Perhaps a little vague, but still meaningful. I believe he is suggesting that as more detail of the House legislation becomes widely published and the more thought and consideration is given to the possible and likely side effects of the legislation - the more support for the legislation diminishes. There certainly appears to be ample evidence for this proposition out there. Not particularly surprising. This subject, like many others, is very complex, involving a mix of social, economic and political issues as well as considerations of personal privacy and freedom. Nearly everything is affected by it, and it represents an unpresedented intrusion of government of people's lives.

What should be surprising to thoughtful, intelligent people is the notion that somehow we could come up with an organized "solution" to this complex problen through a process as filled with competing fixed ideas and corruption as our legislative one that might preserve the freedom and personal initiative that are fundamental to this country.

Freedom is a messy thing. It permits error, waste, and all forms of wrong-headedness. However, experience tells us it generally yields better solutions than authoritarian systems.
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:03 am
georgeob1 wrote:

Perhaps a little vague, but still meaningful. I believe he is suggesting that as more detail of the House legislation becomes widely published and the more thought and consideration is given to the possible and likely side effects of the legislation - the more support for the legislation diminishes. Not particularly surprising.


Or particularly true.

Quote:
This subject, like many others, is very complex, involving a mix of social, economic and political issues as well as considerations of personal privacy and freedom. Nearly everything is affected by it, and it represents an unpresedented intrusion of government of people's lives.


It also includes a great deal of issues we refer to as 'lies' and 'falsehoods,' perpetrated by the right-wing media, designed to scare people. A large amount of the confusion about the plan is due to this.

Quote:
What should be surprising to thoughtful, intelligent people is the notion that somehow we could come up with an organized "solution" to this complex problem through a process as filled with competing fixed ideas and corruption as our legislative one that might preserve the freedom and personal initiative that are fundamental to this country.

Freedom is a messy thing. It permits error, waste, and all forms of wrong-headedness. However, experience tells us it generally yields better solutions than authoritarian systems.


Congress passing laws isn't authoritarian. Not in the slightest. The creation of a Public Option isn't authoritarian, either.

Cycloptichorn
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:08 am
As I've said before, Obama has already lost the communication war on health care. I read in today's newspaper that Obama was going to address both houses of congress today to insert more detail into his health care plan.

Too little, too late.
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:37 am
So, do you see it going no where CI? No significant healthcare bill from Obama and/or Congress?
0 Replies
 
View Profile okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:47 am
FreeDuck wrote:
Indeed, the more your lot talk the more reasonable Obama will sound.
Is that why his and Congress poll numbers continue to drop? I think, I hope, this country is still conservative enough to salvage it from heading leftward.
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:53 am
Obama's poll numbers have dropped because the right wing nuts and the insurance industry has muddied the health care reform with bull shit and misinformation. "Death panels" is a right wing nut idea that has taken hold in this country that proves most are misinformed about health care reform. "Let granny die" is also misinformation that right wing nuts have spread that is now believed by many in this country. With all this misinformation, it's not surprising that Obama's rating is dropping.

Who's fault do you think it is?
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:57 am
The phrase "will sound" is in the future tense. In case you weren't clear. And I will put this to you, okie. The folks who didn't like him and didn't vote for him were probably never counted among his "approvers". So if he is losing support now, it has to be from people who previously supported him -- meaning people who want health care reform and may have even wanted single payer and are disappointed that he's letting Republicans stop progress on the bill. The noisy people in this debate are not folks who are suddenly seeing the light because of all the discussion we've been having about the issue. They are the people who see the health care issue as just one more indicator that Obama is an Usurper and Manchurian candidate. It's his supporters' perceptions that Obama is not making it happen that make them not approve of what he's doing. And if your memory is not too short you'll remember that there were moments like this during the campaign too. And then he would give a speech...

(*of course, his speeches were better when he was a candidate)
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