How to know the true God

@onevoice,

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My free will still gave me what it gave me, and nothing... Even death... Can take that away.

Ummm, if the god kills you for making the wrong choice, then that took away your free will choice to not die.

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How do you figure? What is it exactly that was taken or lost?

Ummm, our free will choice to live and make free will choices.

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See... Y'all get all pissy when Christians do this... So now why should it be OK when you do?

Ummm, do what? Where did I get pissy? And define pissy.

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All you are really doing here is taking a partial truth and twisting it to mean what suits your cause.

Ummm, no. That's not what I'm doing here. It is a biblical fact that the god removed the free will choice of those who exercised their free will choices, and it did so by exterminating them. If you believe that I've twisted that story in some way, please feel free to explain.

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@cicerone imposter,

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Just because you went down the wrong road is not based on anything but your own choice. You had other options. Nobody forced you to take that wrong choice. Nothing to do with gods or the devil. Correction: Sometimes I declare that "the devil made me do it."

You missed my point CI, which really had nothing to do with the roads I've traveled. You will no longer find my footprints there, because i don't frequent those paths anymore. Good and bad experiences alike... Choices made by my " free will"... None of it can be taken away, even by death.

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@Glennn,

envious said,

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All you are really doing here is taking a partial truth and twisting it to mean what suits your cause.

Sorry, but you'll have to explain this one. How is it being 'twisted?'

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@onevoice,

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It has everything to do with your character though. You cannot be "pro choice" while whining and crying about God undoing what He created.

I never said I was pro-choice or pro-life. So tell me what that has to do with my character.

Now maybe we can get back to my point that you're avoiding. You said: How can you imply it is not the right of anyone who creates anything to undo what they did? I then made the point that if that is what you believe, then I should be able to undo my child if it falls short of my expectations. So, what about that?

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@Glennn,

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Ummm, if the god kills you for making the wrong choice, then that took away your free will choice to not die.

Huh? Since when is it that not dying became a choice? Seriously... I don't know if I could take a hundred years of watching our decline... Let alone a few thousand!

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Ummm, our free will choice to live and make free will choices.

Again... Really?

I'm so very excited to know now that I can choose to not die. What a relief.

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Ummm, do what? Where did I get pissy? And define pissy.

Do what? Twist partial truths to suit your cause.

You didn't get pisssy. I apologize. That was a blanket statement. I hate it when I do that. However...

piss·y
adjectivevulgar slang
1.of, relating to, or suggestive of urine.
2.arrogantly argumentative.

The number two definition. Lol

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Ummm, no. That's not what I'm doing here. It is a biblical fact that the god removed the free will choice of those who exercised their free will choices, and it did so by exterminating them. If you believe that I've twisted that story in some way, please feel free to explain.

I assume you have the scriptures to back this idea up? I would like to see them please. I would really like to see where the bible states that specifically.

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@Glennn,

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I never said I was pro-choice or pro-life. So tell me what that has to do with my character.

You are the one who brought up the baby issue, not me. Not that I didn't think about it, mind you. However, I don't feel going in depth on that will benefit this specific conversation. So I chose not to. However, since you opened the door I chose to dive in to make one point only. The stance you are taking paints you as a hypocrite. No matter what side you choose. On one hand you are saying it is unfair for God to take away life... And yet you won't commit to one side of the issue of abortion or the other. The issue YOU brought up, I might remind you. Why is that?

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Now maybe we can get back to my point that you're avoiding.

I am not avoiding any points. I would just like to get the points I brought up first answered. Which... Btw... Is it or is it not the right of the creator of something to undo what they started? It is a simple yes or no answer.

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@Glennn,

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Could you perhaps point me to the page on which you declared the god's final objective?

Not that there aren't clues there but like with free will, the final objective is not spelled out in the book.

Have you already forgotten where the book says all truth is to be found?

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@cicerone imposter,

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@Glennn,
envious said,

Gosh CI, that's disappointing. I thought you were bigger than that. Sad

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@Leadfoot,

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Not that there aren't clues there but like with free will, the final objective is not spelled out in the book.

If the god's main objective is not spelled out in the book, then how can you possibly proclaim that the flood, the parting the Red Sea, and causing the sun to stand still in the sky was done in the interest of preserving that objective?

When further pressed on the issue of the god's main objective, you offered this:

Imagine yourself as this sentient being completely alone in existence. Intelligence naturally demands interaction, it craves grist for the mill, something to engage with. To put it simply, once you have mastered your surroundings, you long for companionship.

To begin with, the last sentence of your paragraph implies that the god had to master the surroundings that it created. How could the surroundings that it had created be a mystery to it??

Also, like others in this thread, you are projecting your own ideas onto the god, going so far as to imagine that the god was lonely, plus you projected what the god was thinking in its lonely state concerning how it would alleviate its loneliness. And you do this despite the fact that the book is very clear about the god's ways and thoughts being different from, and far above, your ways and thoughts. You portray the god as longing for something, which is another way of saying that the god was incomplete up until the time it created humans.

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@onevoice,

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Huh? Since when is it that not dying became a choice? Seriously... I don't know if I could take a hundred years of watching our decline... Let alone a few thousand!

Ah, but you've forgotten that a thousand years is but a day to the lord. This is just another example of believers superimposing their own human reasoning and disposition onto the mind of the god.

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Twist partial truths to suit your cause.

I asked you to please explain how I've done this. I did not ask you to do your rendition a a parrot.

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I would like to see them please. I would really like to see where the bible states that specifically.

Due to your beliefs, you have a mental block that prohibits you from understanding that wiping out humans in a flood was an interference in the free will activities of those humans. Same with causing the sun to stand still in the sky and parting the Red Sea.

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@Glennn,

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Also, like others in this thread, you are projecting your own ideas onto the god, going so far as to imagine that the god was lonely, plus you projected what the god was thinking in its lonely state concerning how it would alleviate its loneliness.

I've already told you that I'm loony enough to believe God told me these things himself. What more do you want of me?

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@onevoice,

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You are the one who brought up the baby issue, not me.

Yes, and I brought it up in response to this: How can you imply it is not the right of anyone who creates anything to undo what they did? So I asked you if I have the right to undo what I have created if my child falls short of my expectations. I was showing you where that idea of yours logically leads. So, are you going to answer my question?

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@Leadfoot,

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I've already told you that I'm loony enough to believe God told me these things himself. What more do you want of me?

Nothing. Your admission that the god has confided in you concerning these things has answered my questions.

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@Glennn,

Happy trails then..

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@onevoice,

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2.arrogantly argumentative.

It seems to me that you are interpreting challenges to your beliefs about the god as arrogance.

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@Glennn,

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Ah, but you've forgotten that a thousand years is but a day to the lord. This is just another example of believers superimposing their own human reasoning and disposition onto the mind of the god.

Oh, be assured I have forgotten nothing.

Pissy----->

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I asked you to please explain how I've done this. I did not ask you to do your rendition a a parrot.

<--------- Pissy

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Due to your beliefs, you have a mental block that prohibits you from understanding that wiping out humans in a flood was an interference in the free will activities of those humans. Same with causing the sun to stand still in the sky and parting the Red Sea.

I find that interesting coming from someone who can't or won't answer a simple yes or no question. I won't dance with you Glen. If you decide to answer the question I would be happy to continue this conversation and answer your questions as best I can. Have a wonderful day. Smile

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@onevoice,

So, to sum up, you asked if it is not the right of anyone who creates something to undo what they did. Since your question strongly implies that you believe that is the right of anyone who creates something to undo what they did, I asked you whether or not I then have the right to end my child's life if it falls short of my expectations. But you, being the sensitive person that you are, cry foul by way of accusing me of being pissy. And instead of just answering my question, you stipulate that you will not answer unless I state my position concerning abortion.

It appears that you imagine that accusing others of being pissy is a get-out-of-a-debate-free- card. It's not . . .

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@Glennn,

Oh Glen. Playing dumb is not becoming to you. Keep trying to pin the blame on me. Maybe it will.work to convince some. In such a case: Kudo's to you! Very Happy

The fact still remains that you won't answer a simple yes or no question that actually had nothing to do with abortion. Remember... You brought that into the conversation, not me,. Wink

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@onevoice,

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Remember... You brought that into the conversation, not me,

In your defense of the god's act of killing everyone in a flood because it didn't like what they were doing, you argued that it is the right of anyone who creates something to undo what they did. So I asked you whether or not I then have the right to end my child's life if it falls short of my expectations. For reasons known by everyone but you, you refuse to answer, and have instead brought the issue of pro-life and pro-choice into this when it doesn't apply.

What happened is that you were caught in your own philosophical quandary, and are looking for escape. But there's no escape. Your words are now a matter of public record.

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@neologist,

After supper that night before bedtime, the men of the city, young and old, gathered around Lot's house demanding he bring his two guests out that they might "know" them. Lot went out and closed the door behind him and prayed that they not do such wicked things, and offered them his virgin daughters, that had not "known" man, that they might know them instead, and do with as they pleased. His response infuriated the men of Sodom who accused him of being judgmental and they threatened to do worse to him than they would have done to the men.[Gen.19:4–9]

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How to know the true God

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