How to know the true God

@neologist,

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And do you think pre flood human activity had nothing to do with human interaction?

Yeah, human interaction had everything to do with human activity. But that has nothing to do with this. So I'll repeat myself . . . again. If the god is the giver of free will, and that same god applies consequences to the free use of that will (by way of killing with a flood, parting the Red Sea, and causing the sun to stand still in the sky), that is called a condition, or, in your own words, an interference in our quality of free will, and therefore, not free will. Do you have anything with which to refute that point? If not, just say so for cryin' out loud!

Again! The point I have made concerning the god interfering in free will has to do not with the free will interactions between human beings, and not with the biological limitations of human beings.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

We need to go back further than biblical times. Back to the study about primates and evolution.

From the Smithsonian:
These are simple questions to answer from a genetic perspective—humans share more DNA with lemurs, monkeys and apes than they do with other mammals. Genetic research of the last few decades suggests that humans
and all living primates evolved from a common ancestor that split from the rest of the mammals at least 65 million years ago. But even before DNA analyses, scientists knew humans belong in the primate order. Carl Linnaeus classified humans with monkeys, apes and other primates in his 18th-century taxonomic system. Even the ancient Greeks recognized similarities between people and primates. Today, anthropologists recognize several physical and behavioral traits that tie humans to primates.

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-are-humans-primates-97419056/#QtURMpytlqrq2D9e.99
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

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@cicerone imposter,

You didn't answer my question.

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@onevoice,

What question. A loving god doesn't go around killing innocent babies with a world flood. Even wars that our country is involved in try not to have collateral damage. Your god is behind the times.

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@Glennn,

How about if you just answer the question?

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If it is not the right of the Creator to put an end to something He created, how then is it our right to put an end to something we had no part in creating? I mean, there is still a death penalty, right?

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@cicerone imposter,

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What question

Please see above response. Smile

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@onevoice,

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I mean, there is still a death penalty, right?

What are you asking me?

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@Glennn,

If it is not the right of the Creator to put an end to something He created, how then is it our right to put an end to something we had no part in creating? I mean, there is still a death penalty, right?

Oh wait... I can see now how that could look like a trap. Be assured my goal is not to get you to admit there is a Creator. Plain and simple...

How can you imply it is not the right of anyone who creates anything to undo what they did? Surely you can't tell me every artist paints the perfect picture, or expresses everything they want to in the first attempt.

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@onevoice,

Like the others in this thread, you fail to understand the difference between free will as it pertains to the interactions between humans, and free will as it pertains to the interactions between the god and humans. The god being the granter of our free will would be guilty of interfering in our free will if it decides to kill us when we do something displeasing in its sight. It would not be free will if the god puts conditions on it.

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@onevoice,

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is not the right of the Creator to put an end to something He created?

Study the history and evolution of primates. The 2000 year old book called the bible has human history all wrong.

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@onevoice,

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How can you imply it is not the right of anyone who creates anything to undo what they did?

So, if I make a baby, it's my right to undo what I've done? Really?

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@Glennn,

So then you ARE saying that as the Creator He does not have the right to dislike the direction that creation was going and end it there?

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@Glennn,

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So, if I make a baby, it's my right to undo what I've done? Really?

So you are pro life then?

1 Reply

@onevoice,

I'm say'n, there ain't no such thing as a 'creator.' Your creator came into being only 2000 years ago. This planet is much, much, older. Some estimates by scientists put it at 4.5 billion years old.

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@onevoice,

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So then you ARE saying that as the Creator He does not have the right to dislike the direction that creation was going and end it there?

I'm saying that not interfering in our choices is essential to the quality of our free will. I am also saying that if the god gives us free will, and then kills us for our free will choices, then it wasn't free will. And if the god ever claimed to have given us free will and then kills us for using our free will, then the god lied because that's not what free will.

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@onevoice,

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So you are pro life then?

You said: How can you imply it is not the right of anyone who creates anything to undo what they did? I then made the point that if that is what you believe, then I should be able to undo my child if it falls short of my expectations. Your question concerning whether or not I'm pro-life has nothing to do with my question to you.

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@Glennn,

FYI, pro life is an oxymoron. What are all those pro-lifers doing for the starving children of this world? They want to save the infant at birth (none of their business), but don't give a damn about all those starving children? Give me a break! They don't care one iota about the baby after birth. They don't even know who they are. Do they really have that much interest in total strangers who live half way around the world? Really?

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@Glennn,

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I'm saying that not interfering in our choices is essential to the quality of our free will.

Ummm, no. It's really not. Let me tell you... My "free will" has taken me down some wild roads. Not all bad believe it or not. Some pretty darn fun, to be honest. Whether my end comes from natural causes, supernatural causes, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time... My free will still gave me what it gave me, and nothing... Even death... Can take that away.

Quote:

I am also saying that if the god gives us free will, and then kills us for our free will choices, then it wasn't free will.

How do you figure? What is it exactly that was taken or lost? The ability to continue making the wrong choices? It certainly wasn't any of the experiences that free will brought throughout life.

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And if the god ever claimed to have given us free will and then kills us for using our free will, then the god lied because that's not what free will.

See... Y'all get all pissy when Christians do this... So now why should it be OK when you do? All you are really doing here is taking a partial truth and twisting it to mean what suits your cause. Oh and the cherry on top... Trying to twist it enough to make it look like me and the others are saying or implying things we are not.

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@Glennn,

Quote:

You said: How can you imply it is not the right of anyone who creates anything to undo what they did? I then made the point that if that is what you believe, then I should be able to undo my child if it falls short of my expectations. Your question concerning whether or not I'm pro-life has nothing to do with my question to you.

It has everything to do with your character though. You cannot be "pro choice" while whining and crying about God undoing what He created.

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@onevoice,

Just because you went down the wrong road is not based on anything but your own choice. You had other options. Nobody forced you to take that wrong choice. Nothing to do with gods or the devil. Correction: Sometimes I declare that "the devil made me do it."

1 Reply

How to know the true God

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