7
   

lie / lay

 
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Oct, 2013 02:34 pm
@contrex,
Thanks Con, in #….575 you express it much better than I
0 Replies
 
Shipman824
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Oct, 2013 10:52 am
Lay is to place, lie is to recline. A good trick to remember this is the "a" in lay is also in place, while the "i" in lie is also found in recline. I'm going to lay the book down on the table, and then go lie down in bed.
timur
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Oct, 2013 11:01 am
Shipman824 wrote:
and then go lie down in bed.

With a good lay?
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Oct, 2013 01:45 pm
@timur,

I'll lay that's no word of a lie.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Oct, 2013 09:27 pm
@Shipman824,
Quote:
Lay is to place, lie is to recline. A good trick to remember this is the "a" in lay is also in place, while the "i" in lie is also found in recline. I'm going to lay the book down on the table, and then go lie down in bed.


That's a silly old canard, Shipman.

Quote:


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lay?show=0&t=1381375577

Usage Discussion of LAY

lay has been used intransitively in the sense of “lie” since the 14th century. The practice was unremarked until around 1770; attempts to correct it have been a fixture of schoolbooks ever since. Generations of teachers and critics have succeeded in taming most literary and learned writing, but intransitive lay persists in familiar speech and is a bit more common in general prose than one might suspect. Much of the problem lies in the confusing similarity of the principal parts of the two words. Another influence may be a folk belief that lie is for people and lay is for things. Some commentators are ready to abandon the distinction, suggesting that lay is on the rise socially. But if it does rise to respectability, it is sure to do so slowly: many people have invested effort in learning to keep lie and lay distinct. Remember that even though many people do use lay for lie, others will judge you unfavorably if you do.

Shipman824
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Oct, 2013 07:40 am
@JTT,
Lots of words that don't say anything. I'll stick with the way was taught, thanks.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 10 Oct, 2013 08:30 am
@Shipman824,
Quote:
Lots of words that don't say anything. I'll stick with the way was taught, thanks.


Why would you want to stick with ignorance, Shipman?

Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
Whatever colors you have in your mind
I’ll show them to you and you’ll see them shine

Read more: http://www.bobdylan.com/ca/node/25882#ixzz2hKUPwpYW
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Oct, 2013 10:35 am
@JTT,
Really JT? using pop song lyrics as a guide to grammar?

Dylan is awesome, but paragon of grammar is not his contribution to society.
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Oct, 2013 11:04 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
Whatever colors you have in your mind
I’ll show them to you and you’ll see them shine


Yea sit up, I'mma tell you who I be
I'mma make you hate me, cause you ain't me

--Slim Shady
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 10 Oct, 2013 07:21 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Really JT? using pop song lyrics as a guide to grammar?


Do you feel that the lyrics of pop music are ungrammatical, Max?

Dylan is just one example of 'lay' used in a perfectly natural fashion. The idiots are the prescriptivists who came up with yet another badly analyzed bit of language.

Were you "taught" this nonsense too? You don't believe it has any veracity, do you?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Oct, 2013 07:28 pm
@JTT,
That is not a "natural fashion" at all. Do you think a normal person would speak these words to a real woman (without singing)? No, it is song lyrics. It is poetry. It is not natural speech.

Art don't always follow good grammar....

Quote:
It ain’t no use in turnin’ on your light, babe
That light I never knowed
An’ it ain’t no use in turnin’ on your light, babe
I’m on the dark side of the road
Still I wish there was somethin’ you would do or say
To try and make me change my mind and stay
We never did too much talkin’ anyway
So don’t think twice, it’s all right
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 10 Oct, 2013 07:41 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
That is not a "natural fashion" at all. Do you think a normal person would speak these words to a real woman (without singing)? No, it is song lyrics. It is poetry. It is not natural speech.


You've misunderstood "a perfectly natural fashion", Max. What part of "lay has been used intransitively in the sense of “lie” since the 14th century" don't you understand? Dylan used 'lay' in the perfectly natural fashion that all native English speakers use it, have used it since the 14th century.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Oct, 2013 07:44 pm
@JTT,
All I am saying is that using Dylan as an example of good grammar is bogus (although humorously so).

This has been "knowed" since the 1960s.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 10 Oct, 2013 07:49 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
All I am saying is that using Dylan as an example of good grammar is bogus (although humorously so).


And all I am saying, which you are studiously avoiding, is that song lyrics are grand examples of good grammar. To understand this, first you have to understand what grammar means.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Oct, 2013 08:24 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
I won't tell you that I love you
Kiss or hug you
Cause I'm bluffin' with my muffin
I'm not lying, I'm just stunnin' with my love-glue-gunnin'
Just like a chick in the casino
Take your bank before I pay you out
I promise this
Check this hand cause I'm marvelous
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 10 Oct, 2013 08:48 pm
@maxdancona,
That's awfully sweet of you, Max, but you should probably go for someone your own age.

Smile
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Oct, 2013 10:04 pm
@JTT,
Lady Gaga is the Bob Dylan of the 21st century.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 11 Oct, 2013 08:52 am
@maxdancona,
Lady Gaga is **** on a stick. But you're avoiding the language issues.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Oct, 2013 09:11 am
@JTT,
What language issues? You are the one with issues, not me.

JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 11 Oct, 2013 09:14 am
@maxdancona,
All the silly notions just in this thread that you have advanced on language, Max.
0 Replies
 
 

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