Guns aren't stupid, People with Guns Are.

As for a .44, what's the point of weakening it by loading a "gentler" round with less recoil?

You might as well plump for a fullstrength .38 in the first place, right?

oralloy wrote:

Note though that if you are defending against bears or other large dangerous animals,
you would want the full power of the .44 magnum.

Yes. That 's absolutely right, maybe even .5O caliber.

Depends on which .50 you mean.
I'm a bit dubious of a handgun that has the same recoil energy of a 12 gauge magnum shotgun.

I think the .454 Casull is probably the limit of sanity when it comes to handgun power.

I could see using the .454 Casull for bear defense,
but only if one is able to handle the recoil and still shoot effectively.

Yes. I understand your reasoning; however, consider this incident.
(I try to learn from others' mistakes, or adventures.):

A fellow told me of his taking his brand new .5O caliber revolver
on a hunting expedition. He said that a boar charged at him.
He shot him twice in the chest and he kept charging.
The last was a successful head shot.
On dressing out the pig, he found that his first 2 rounds had blasted out
his lungs and heart and he still kept charging, until he got clipped in the head;
i.e., he almost got too close -- dangerous.

When exposed to large animals, mass and powder charge MATTER.

This bears some contemplative analysis:
the hydrostatic SHOCK with attendant expansive distortion of chest tissue
must have been HUGE, for each of the first 2 rounds, and yet the pig kept coming!

I have seen it in Youtube videos of .44 magnum in 1O% Ordnance Gelatin,
tho, not that I remember, of .5O caliber.

The moral of the story is:
When hunting in the wild,
do u need to be able to HANDLE the situation?? U bet your life !

My defensive .44 has a 2 inch barrel. Its conveniently concealable.
U can fire .44 special ammunition in a .44 magnum revolver; gentler.
Its additional weight is helpful in handling Isaac Newton 's 3rd Law of Motion
(either that, or convince Newton to change the law).


A .44 special cartridge is a lot gentler than .44 magnum,
but its tremendously more powerful than a .38 round; u can feel it in the recoil.

Yes. I understand your reasoning; however, consider this incident.
(I try to learn from others' mistakes, or adventures.):

A fellow told me of his taking his brand new .5O caliber revolver
on a hunting expedition. He said that a boar charged at him.
He shot him twice in the chest and he kept charging.
The last was a successful head shot.
On dressing out the pig, he found that his first 2 rounds had blasted out
his lungs and heart and he still kept charging, until he got clipped in the head;
i.e., he almost got too close -- dangerous.

When exposed to large animals, mass and powder charge MATTER.

This bears some contemplative analysis:
the hydrostatic SHOCK with attendant expansive distortion of chest tissue
must have been HUGE, for each of the first 2 rounds, and yet the pig kept coming!

I have seen it in Youtube videos of .44 magnum in 1O% Ordnance Gelatin,
tho, not that I remember, of .5O caliber.

The moral of the story is:
When hunting in the wild,
do u need to be able to HANDLE the situation?? U bet your life !

If the .454 Casull is not enough defensive stopping power,
then the best bet is to transition to a rifle.

My defensive .44 has a 2 inch barrel. Its conveniently concealable.
U can fire .44 special ammunition in a .44 magnum revolver; gentler.
Its additional weight is helpful in handling Isaac Newton 's 3rd Law of Motion
(either that, or convince Newton to change the law).


A .44 special cartridge is a lot gentler than .44 magnum,
but its tremendously more powerful than a .38 round; u can feel it in the recoil.

It certainly looks a little beauty like a miniature cannon
and you've almost sold me on it, but just one question-
You say the recoil "feels" more powerful than a .38, but do you have
any hard figures about muzzle velocity and tests against different
things like steel plate etc?
What I'm wondering is whether the "feel" of the recoil is an accurate
indication of a guns true stopping power?

Do u favor bolt action over lever action rifles ?

My desire to avoid recoil is directing me towards uncommon calibers. The marketplace clearly prefers higher velocity bullets for dangerous animals.

I've nothing against higher velocity, but reduction of recoil means something has to be sacrificed somewhere.

oralloy wrote:

My desire to avoid recoil is directing me towards uncommon calibers. The marketplace clearly prefers higher velocity bullets for dangerous animals.

I've nothing against higher velocity, but reduction of recoil means something has to be sacrificed somewhere.

The marketplace prefers rounds more like the .338 Win Mag and .375 H&H for defense against CXP3 sized dangerous animals.

The .338 Win Mag in the Browning semi-auto is especially popular in Alaska, as the semi-auto dampens recoil to the extent that it feels like firing a .30-06. However, the .338 Win Mag is not entirely reliable at stopping a charge of a large animal (which is why I was looking to larger calibers).

The .375 H&H can certainly stop a charging CXP3 sized animal with authority. However, the recoil is stiff to say the least (and there are no semi-autos available to dampen it). That's why I was looking towards lower velocity rounds.

The 9.3×64mm Brenneke is the equal of the .375 H&H (both in stopping power and in recoil). It is more common in countries tied to continental Europe though, and less common in countries tied to the former British Empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Winchester_Magnum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.375_Holland_%26_Holland_Magnum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9.3%C3%9764mm_Brenneke

Father Shoots Teen Daughter Mistaken for Intruder

FREDERICK COUNTY, Va. - Many buy guns to protect themselves against crime, but for one
father in Frederick County a split decision to use his gun backfired after he accidentally
shot his 16-year-old daughter.

"[A] male subject stated, ‘My daughter's been shot and I’m taking her to the hospital.’
There was an open line for a few seconds and then the phone disconnected," said Captain
Donnie Lang with the Frederick County Sheriff’s Office, describing the 911 call into dispatch.

Investigators said the confusion happened in the 400 block of Lily's Way around 3:30 a.m.
Tuesday when the girl's father was getting ready for work.

"The homeowner, he has an alarm system inside what I call is ‘audible,’ in that it tells you
what door is being opened," said Lang.

The father’s alarm system, another safety precaution, told him the garage had just been
opened.

"When he went to go investigate what had set off the alarm, he heard some banging and
rustling around in the garage,” said Lang. “At that particular point, he obtained a firearm
that he had there in the kitchen area."

The rustling wasn't an intruder, but his teenage daughter.

"Later on, it was determined that the daughter had snuck out hours earlier that morning,
and was attempting to sneak back into the home," said Lang.

Lack of visibility in the garage, and the feeling that someone was "coming at him" led the dad
to fire the gun, hitting his daughter in her torso.

Within moments, he realized his mistake, and rushed her to Winchester Medical Center.
However, in the hurry and chaos, the father accidentally wrecked his car at Cork Street and
East Lane in Winchester while attempting to transport his daughter to the hospital.

Winchester Fire and Rescue were able to safely transport the girl the rest of the way there,
where she remains in stable condition.

"We [will] confer with the Commonwealth’s Attorney's office [to] reference all the facts, and
once it is completed, determine how they want us to go further," said Lang of whether or not
any charges were going to be filed.

The father received no physical injuries as a result of the crash. However, investigators said he
is emotionally distraught over the accidents.

The case remains under investigation.

Article quote: Lack of visibility in the garage, and the feeling that someone was "coming at him" led the dad to fire the gun, hitting his daughter in her torso.

He broke the golden rule- "Always make sure of your target".
That South African bloke Pistorius made the same mistake, firing through the bathroom door because he thought a burglar was in there, but it was his girlfriend

He broke the golden rule- "Always make sure of your target".
That South African bloke Pistorius made the same mistake, firing through the bathroom door because he thought a burglar was in there, but it was his girlfriend

Yes. I never could figure people who shoot at fleeting shadows
(and invariably hit family members).

Self defense is supposed to be against people who attack you.
"Seeing a fleeting shadow" hardly amounts to "being under attack".

Officials: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

DOLAN SPRINGS, Ariz. (AP) — A 9-year-old girl accidentally killed an Arizona shooting instructor
as he was showing her how to use an automatic Uzi, authorities said Tuesday.

Charles Vacca, 39, of Lake Havasu City, died Monday shortly after being airlifted to University
Medical Center in Las Vegas, Mohave County sheriff's officials said.

Vacca was standing next to the girl at the Last Stop outdoor shooting range in White Hills when
she pulled the trigger and the recoil sent the gun over her head, investigators said.

Authorities said the girl was at the shooting range with her parents. Her name was not released.

A woman who answered the phone at the shooting range said it had no comment. She did not
provide her name.

It is not known if the range had an age limit on shooting or if the girl was going through a safety
class.

Ronald Scott, a Phoenix-based firearms safety expert, said most shooting ranges have an age
limit and strict safety rules when teaching children to shoot. He said instructors usually
have their hands on guns when children are firing high-powered weapons.

"You can't give a 9-year-old an Uzi and expect her to control it," Scott said.