3
   

Does A Teacher's Past Sexual Activity Matter?

 
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 05:12 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
I get it - I just feel bad - I think of it as if maybe he had a change of heart - or maybe he was desperately in need of money -- so even if you do not support what he did --- he may have a completely different lifestyle....don't we all from when we were very young?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 05:16 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
As long as the reporter reported something which is demonstrably true, he broke no law. Ethical concepts of 'right' and 'wrong', 'fair' or 'foul', have nothing to do with the law. Let's not overthink this. The reporter did what he was paid to do -- his job is to report. The school committe did what it is supposed to do -- launched an investigation. The fact that a good teacher's reputation and, indeed, career may have been totally ruined by these actions is in no way legally germaine. We may sympathize with the teacher, but we can't point fingers and blame anyone ("blame" in any legal sense, I mean) other than the teacher himself.

It's not just a matter of legalities--whether the reporter was guilty of libel or slander.

I appreciate Linkat's point about morality--about someone, like the reporter, doing something for possibily malicious reasons to deliberately harm someone else, or disrupt their life. I would wonder about their motives. I'm not faulting the school administrators for placing the man on paid leave while the issue is investigated.

Don't you think there are ethical considerations that go beyond the law? Are your notions of right and wrong limited to only what is covered by laws?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 05:23 pm
@Linkat,
Quote:
he may have a completely different lifestyle....don't we all from when we were very young?

I don't think the teacher's acting in porn movies was in the distant past--it may have been as recent as 6 months before getting his teaching license and job.

And, in the case of the female teacher, recently placed on leave because of her alleged activities with a porn Web site, that took place while she was teaching.

It boils down to how comfortable people are with a teacher who might also find work involved with pornography which is available for public view, and whether this is an appropriate extra-curricular activity for a school teacher.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 05:23 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

It's not just a matter of legalities--whether the reporter was guilty of libel or slander.

I appreciate Linkat's point about morality--about someone doing something for possibily malicious reasons to deliberately harm someone else, or disrupt their life. I would wonder about their motives.

Don't you think there are ethical considerations that go beyond the law? Are your notions of right and wrong limited to only what is covered by laws?


Ethical considerations are matters of conscience. What do you propose to do about a person who you think has behaved unethically but not illegally? If it's a politican, then, yes, you can do several things, chief among them not to vote for that person. Otherwise, there is nothing you or I can do except grouse and whine about it.

If something is not legally actionable, then it is fruitless to keep discussing it. The question of whether the reporter did or did not behave "ethically" is moot. It's way beyondd any earthly jurisdiction. And it solves no problems to keep on carping on it.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 05:25 pm
I sympathize with the teacher, too, and think the reporter didn't need to report that. First of all, it was in the past. He wasn't currently in porn movies, not that that would matter to me one bit. I don't watch porn, but I don't see anything wrong with it whatsoever. But we, as a society, have judged it as immoral, along with a lot of other activities I disagree with (smoking pot, for example, or spanking your kids), so that's why all the brouhaha about it. He also didn't need to report it because there's no upside. He's just fomenting nastiness, creating a stir, inciting indignation and outrage, etc etc etc. Basically, making a name for himself. Thirdly, it's irrelevant to his current profession. I highly doubt he's in there to recruit!

As a person who wanted to become a teacher, however, it was ridiculously stupid of him. He had to have considered what kind of fall-out it would have once it became known. He was a grown adult and he's responsible for his actions. I'm a bit sorry for him but he's his own worst enemy.

joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 05:40 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:
This is difficult because this teacher did not do anything illegal, but would I want my kids being taught by a porno star? Probably not. But is it any of my business – no. If it does not come into the classroom and the teacher asks appropriately in the classroom then I am ok. However, where this became public – how do you keep it out of the classroom? Who’s rights take over here?

It really is not right that this reporter brought it out. It should have been kept private. And then it would be no problem.

So you wouldn't want your kid to be taught by a porn star but you'd rather not know that your kid was being taught by a porn star. I don't know how you can reconcile those positions. Either the information is relevant, in which case you should want to know it, or else it isn't, in which case it's "none of your business." Shutting your eyes to relevant information, however, doesn't make it irrelevant -- it just makes it invisible.

The fact that this guy was an actor in porn videos is clearly relevant, because it shows a potential lack of good judgment on the teacher's part, in much the same way that a history of alcohol abuse or bankruptcy or voting Libertarian would also suggest a possible lack of good judgment. The fact that he acted in gay porn should, on the other hand, be immaterial. We should be past the stage where we assume that every gay man is a pederast or will give his students "THE GAY." And it's a rebuttable presumption: the teacher shouldn't be automatically fired because he made an error in judgment, but should, instead, be allowed to show that his youthful lapse is not indicative of his general character.
MonaLeeza
 
  3  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 05:58 pm
@firefly,
As a parent I am very happy for my kids be taught by teachers who have some experience of life beyond a school-uni-school career path - as long, of course, as their experience didn't involve hurting children in anyway. In the 14 years since my eldest child first entered the the local state school system I've only come across one teacher who I didn't think was fit to be in a classroom and that had nothing to do with her private life. I've seen a whole lot more kids at risk from bad parenting than from bad teaching.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 06:07 pm
@MonaLeeza,
Except this isn't about bad teaching. It's about bad judgements.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 06:12 pm
@Mame,
A local TV news channel once did hit piece on school buses drivers

Headline did you know that x numbers of exfelons are driving your little angels school buses?

Turn out that some of them was indeed exfelons for such crimes as passing bad checks twenty years ago but no crime that would cause a parent a great deal of concern.

In fact once I saw the list of crimes these poor guys was convicted of I wrote a very nasty note to the reporter as there had to be better ways to up the ratings then harming people earning a low level livelihood because of errors they had made many years ago and paid for.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 09:02 pm
I came across this video of the Fox reporter's initial story about Hogan's history of acting in three gay porn films--all of which were made in 2010.

The reporter seems to have ambushed Hogan, armed with a camera and microphone, to get his off-guard reaction to the fact that his past porn activities were now about to become public.

While the reporter had the option of simply making the info available to the school district, and letting them decide what to do, one has to wonder why he chose a more sensational, and somewhat sleazier approach, seemingly designed to maximize public embarrassment to both Hogan and the school.

You can view the video on this page and judge for yourself

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/01/kevin-hogan-high-school-e_n_1123398.html
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 09:38 pm
Quote:

OFF DEADLINE: After teacher porn scandal, what’s next?
By Lisa Guerriero/ WickedLocalMelrose.com
Melrose Free Press
Posted Dec 03, 2011

Melrose, Mass. — If you’ve been following the story of the local teacher accused of appearing in pornographic films, you’ve probably seen the wide variety of responses from readers and residents.

Kevin Hogan, a high school English teacher at Mystic Valley Regional Charter School since September, was put on paid administrative leave following allegations he appeared in past pornographic movies. Located in Malden, the school also has students from Melrose, Medford, Wakefield, Stoneham, Saugus and other nearby communities.

News of Hogan’s alleged participation in adult movies was broken by Fox News. Since then, many readers have wondered who informed Fox, and what was the tipster’s purpose. Some readers contended it was concern for students, while others speculated it might’ve been someone who has a grudge against Hogan personally, or who has a problem with the school, since charter schools tend to have vocal opponents in Massachusetts. These are valid questions, but we may never know the answers, unless the tipster comes forward or is outed.

Perhaps the most important question is, what now? If the allegations are true, do Hogan’s actions mean he should no longer be allowed to teach at Mystic Valley Regional Charter School? The answer has less to do with Hogan’s alleged past than with the public scrutiny and potential concerns of parents. Until the initial buzz about this story dies down, it will be tough to determine whether Hogan can effectively return to teaching.

Many people who commented on the story argued that Hogan’s private life is his own business and doesn’t have any bearing on his ability as an educator. Some have described him as a good teacher who is worth keeping, and two Facebook pages have sprung up in support of him. One, facebook.com/firemikebeaudet, calls for the reinstatement of Hogan and the firing of Mike Beaudet, the Fox News reporter who broke the story. The other was reportedly started by students, and can be found by searching for “We Want Mr. Hogan Back.” Both pages have quickly gained numerous friends and supporters.

Hogan made it through the screening process at Mystic Valley, a top-rated charter school. His alleged participation in adult movies that were released last year wouldn’t have shown up on a CORI check, of course, because pornography isn’t illegal. He didn’t report it during the hiring process, according to a school official, but whether he should have done so — if in fact the allegations are true — is a moral question and not a legal one.

One reader noted that Scott Brown famously appeared in racy Cosmopolitan photos years ago. His photos aren’t the same as adult films, but there’s a clear parallel here. Brown’s centerfold doesn’t seem to have affected his ability to serve as a U.S. senator, and it certainly didn’t prevent him from being elected.

So, in theory, appearing in three adult movies shouldn’t stop a man from working as a teacher, which is a much less public position than a senator. Yet the issue isn’t so cut-and-dried. Hogan’s private life should have remained private, but the fact of the matter is that, in an era when the Internet makes transparency almost inevitable, very little information remains concealed.

Like it or not, when Fox announced the allegations against Hogan, it threatened the school’s reputation and its ability to function normally. Boston TV media swarmed the school after the story broke, which no doubt caused disruption for the teachers, students and parents.

The high-profile story could require parents to have conversations with their children that they’d probably rather avoid. And as another reader pointed out, there’s a good chance that some of the high school students will be looking up their teacher on the Internet, and they won’t be looking for his educational credentials.

When Hogan’s alleged past was a secret, it didn’t affect his teaching or coaching of the crew team, but that may no longer be the case, however unjust. At the time of this writing, school officials were conducting an internal investigation and have been silent on how they’ll deal with the scandal. Whether they’ve received complaints from parents and whether they believe he can still be an effective teacher remains to be seen.

School officials face an unenviable decision. They need to determine if the allegations are true, to weigh the ethical and legal implications of releasing a teacher for something in his personal life, and to consider whether the school’s reputation and the quality of education will be damaged by the scandal.

Based on the facts that have come out thus far, and on the initial public support for Hogan, we hope the school officials can find a way to put this behind them and keep Hogan on their educational team.
http://www.wickedlocal.com/malden/news/lifestyle/columnists/x1560334422/OFF-DEADLINE-After-teacher-porn-scandal-what-s-next#axzz1fiSWiFjF
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 10:09 pm
It seems Mike Beaudet has achieved similar status to Rick Santorum


Warning - this may offend people offended by gay porn actors being teachers.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mike%20beaudet

0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 10:59 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
While the reporter had the option of simply making the info available to the school district, and letting them decide what to do, one has to wonder why he chose a more sensational, and somewhat sleazier approach, seemingly designed to maximize public embarrassment to both Hogan and the school.



Why wonder why? He works for Fox, right? How would it benefit his muck-raking employer if he "simply [made] the info available to the school district"?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 11:35 pm
@RexDraconis111,
RexDraconis111 wrote:
Oh my god, a TEACHER had a pornographic past?! ... WHO CARES?!
I agree. When I was about 11, I bawt a set of Encyclopedia Britannica.
Thay sent over a salesman to make the pitch.
In my mind, a teacher is the same as he was, to wit: a merchant of information.
I had no interest in his personal beliefs nor the history of his life.
That has applied, in my mind, to all teachers.
All that matters is the information that thay purvay.

From my first day in kindergarten,
thru my last day in law school,
it has NEVER, never occurred to me to emulate the teacher.

I never heard any other student say that he
was going to copy the teacher. We only thawt of remembering the work.






RexDraconis111 wrote:
Like many of the posters on here, I agree that Mr. Hogan's past should not jeopardize his career as a teacher. This modern witch-hunt is abhorrent IMO. As long as a teacher's "questionable" (for lack of a better term) past is legal and does not come into the classroom environment or interfere with the education of the students, it shouldn't be a big deal.
Does that mean that Martha Stewart shoud not teach home economics,
nor Michael Milken teach finance ?
Do we need to worship the wishes of government so devoutly?? I don't think so.
( but if u don't, u gotta take your chances; if u DO, u gotta take your chances anyway )




David

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 09:23 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I had no interest in his personal beliefs nor the history of his life.
That has applied, in my mind, to all teachers

That may have been you, David, but I don't know that necessarily applies to high school students who have access to their teacher's naked image in porn videos. I think that many of them would be plenty interested in getting copies of those videos, and looking at them, and, once that happens, that's going to destroy what should be an appropriate student teacher relationship.

What this teacher did by appearing in those porn videos was incredibly stupid and an act of incredibly poor judgment if he had any intention of wanting to pursue his teaching career. And he didn't do these things as some act of youthful indiscretion, he appeared in those videos last year. And these aren't "private" matters since he appeared in a commercial porn product that is publicly available. While he might have chosen to omit this info on his job application, did he really think knowledge of it wouldn't surface at some point? So, not only did he make an error in judgment in appearing in the porn, his second mistake was in not being open about it when he applied for his job and letting his potential employer decide whether they wanted to hire him anyway. He set the stage for this story to erupt and to do so in a manner guaranteed to put the school in a difficult position.
While I don't agree with the way the Fox reporter chose to break the news, in our internet age, this story would have surfaced sooner or later.

I don't think this is just about teachers having an obligation to be good role models, it's also about the image of themselves that teachers, or anyone else, want to make publicly available. And, when those public images involve being naked and appearing in a sex romp designed to elicit sexual arousal in the viewer, the boundary between extremely private matters and one's public persona--as a teacher--shatters, somewhat irretrievably. You can't put this genie back in the bottle. Those images will always be available for view, and will affect your ability to command the respect and dignity that being a teacher requires.

I keep thinking how much worse this would probably be if it were a female teacher whose three porn videos, and still images from such videos, were available to her teenage male students through the internet. Would anyone really question whether she could ever again regain the proper respect in the classroom if her male students were also pleasuring themselves with her naked images after finishing their homework? How about commanding respect from their dads on parent-teacher night? Or respect from male colleagues? You just can't successfully present yourself as a blatant sex object and a teacher at the same time without those presentations of yourself becoming hopelessly confused. And I do think that adversely affects students and the educational process.

So, as badly as I feel for the teacher involved in this mess, after giving the matter considered thought, I really think he should resign. He put himself in this situation, and he put his school in this situation, and I think that his resignation would be his way of taking responsibility for the consequences of his actions.

And this certainly should send a message to teens about being careful about the images of themselves that they post or send to others. These things never disappear in cyber space, they are always out there, and they can come back to haunt you. That may be the most important lesson that this teacher winds up giving to his students.





RexDraconis111
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 09:25 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Exactly. a "merchant of information", as you put it, shouldn't have to worry about his/her private life affecting the opinions of the public because in reality, it's none of our business.

And as far as legality issues go, I'm not going to pretend to understand the subject. Label me a sheep if you must, but from my perspective, if you keep your nose clean, you can avoid attracting the wrong kind of attention. Besides, at this point in my life I'm too young and don't make enough money to want to take unnecessary risks yet.
0 Replies
 
RexDraconis111
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 09:33 am
@firefly,
Despite agreeing with David on the whole "private matters" issue, I do understand that yes, this teacher did make an error in judgment and yes, he would be better off if he resigned, considering that he was naked in front of a camera and those videos ARE public. But at the same time I agree that he shouldn't necessarily be out and out fired, considering that termination looks worse than resignation on a resume.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 11:10 am
Quote:
I had no interest in his personal beliefs nor the history of his life.
That has applied, in my mind, to all teachers

firefly wrote:
That may have been you, David,
Did u model yourself after any teachers ??
I never thawt of doing that. I only thawt of remembering the information.





firefly wrote:
but I don't know that necessarily applies to high school students who have access to their teacher's naked image in porn videos. I think that many of them would be plenty interested in getting copies of those videos, and looking at them, and, once that happens, that's going to destroy what should be an appropriate student teacher relationship.
Maybe NOT, Firefly.
This was a public school, right?
This is AMERICA. It is of foremost importance
that we, as citizens, bear in mind the historical origins of government,
to wit: we created it. To government: WE are its creator.
IT is our baby. Government is our child. It and its hirelings are our servants.
We shoud demand that government bear that in mind.
Each morning, government shoud pledge allegiance to us, the citizens, its creators
and IT shoud respect us, accordingly.

Let us remember that the relationship of government toward citizens
is one of ADVERSITY. Whose side r we ON??



firefly wrote:
What this teacher did by appearing in those porn videos was incredibly stupid and an act of incredibly poor judgment if he had any intention of wanting to pursue his teaching career. And he didn't do these things as some act of youthful indiscretion, he appeared in those videos last year. And these aren't "private" matters since he appeared in a commercial porn product that is publicly available. While he might have chosen to omit this info on his job application, did he really think knowledge of it wouldn't surface at some point?
It looks like he did, yes.



firefly wrote:
So, not only did he make an error in judgment in appearing in the porn, his second mistake was in not being open about it when he applied for his job and letting his potential employer decide whether they wanted to hire him anyway.
Presumably, he knew that he 'd never have been considered,
if he put that there.






firefly wrote:
He set the stage for this story to erupt and to do so in a manner guaranteed to put the school in a difficult position.
At least, he'd get a few months pay out of it.




firefly wrote:
While I don't agree with the way the Fox reporter chose to break the news, in our internet age, this story would have surfaced sooner or later.
U never know.






firefly wrote:
I don't think this is just about teachers having an obligation to be good role models,
Is that in their contract??




firefly wrote:
it's also about the image of themselves that teachers, or anyone else, want to make publicly available.
I used to think about that, when I held a public office, years ago.




firefly wrote:
And, when those public images involve being naked and appearing in a sex romp designed to elicit sexual arousal in the viewer, the boundary between extremely private matters and one's public persona--as a teacher--shatters, somewhat irretrievably. You can't put this genie back in the bottle. Those images will always be available for view, and will affect your ability to command the respect and dignity that being a teacher requires.
I challenge and dispute your assumption.
We shoud look upon them the same as we look upon book salesmen.
WE r the customers: thay shoud be respecting us, not the other way around.




firefly wrote:
I keep thinking how much worse this would probably be if it were a female teacher whose three porn videos, and still images from such videos, were available to her teenage male students through the internet. Would anyone really question whether she could ever again regain the proper respect in the classroom if her male students were also pleasuring themselves with her naked images after finishing their homework?
How does that work??
The employee remains perfectly free to show proper respect
for the customers for whom she works.
If it is a math class, then thay might need to ask about algebra or trigonometry, not about respect.







firefly wrote:
How about commanding respect from their dads on parent-teacher night?
Its MORE important that our servant
respect her master, the citizen.



firefly wrote:
Or respect from male colleagues?
Just speaking for myself: that 'd have no influence upon my respect.
I don 't disdain entertainers, necessarily.
I 'm e z to get along with, as a general rule.




firefly wrote:
You just can't successfully present yourself as a blatant sex object and a teacher at the same time without those presentations of yourself becoming hopelessly confused.
Thay r UNRELATED. If the student wants the information,
then he 'll pay attention to it.



firefly wrote:
And I do think that adversely affects students and the educational process.

So, as badly as I feel for the teacher involved in this mess, after giving the matter considered thought, I really think he should resign. He put himself in this situation, and he put his school in this situation, and I think that his resignation would be his way of taking responsibility for the consequences of his actions.
And this certainly should send a message to teens about being careful about the images of themselves that they post or send to others.
Shoud he become concerned about sending messages to students,
if his personal revenues r about to suffer??????
He needs to keep his priorities straight.



firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 11:30 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
He needs to keep his priorities straight.

He probably should have given that more thought before he made those commercial porn videos last year, particularly the priority he wanted to give his teaching career and how those videos might affect his ability to continue to pursue that career.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 12:39 pm
@firefly,
I suppose it also depends on the expectations of the position as any job position would require. Most jobs do have requirements regarding ethics. I actually get rated in part due to my company "values". So I would imagine there are similar requirements as part of a teacher's position.
 

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