What Can We Say to Him?

Some people do well being victims.
It is guaranteed attention and effection. Even for a fleeting moment.

What is he like when he is sober?
Does he talk about it alot then?
is he embarassed about it?
is it still a badge when he is sober?

what HAVE you said so far that doesnt or hasnt worked?

When he's sober, he may mention things in passing, if it pertains to the conversation. He's not embarrassed about it ever, it's just a fact for him. I don't know how open he is about it with his friends. I asked him how soon does he bring it up in relationships and he said at least a year. I was relieved to hear that because he's a handsome, intelligent man with a good career, makes nice money and, at 36 years of age, is ripe to get married. I can't figure out why the women aren't flinging themselves at him?? Although he dates alot, no one sticks, or hasn't for a while now.

Just last weekend, he came over and cooked a special Father's Day dinner. Naturally, there was beer and of course, the bar was open. We were all in the kitchen, preparing dinner, and he tuned up about a new situation that has arisen between his sister and their mother and he twirled it around to become his situation, as if trying to claim it, and I said to him, "That's your sisters' tragedy, not yours. Let her have her tragedy." After that, he was off, railing about his mother and what she did to him and his father said to him then that he wears it like a badge and I said something about bringing it up all of the time and talking about it so often keeps it alive and gives it power. He said that if he can't talk to us then he can't talk to anyone.

Ah, so his mother is still living...

This is difficult. Unless he is willing to confront her with his past (and she'd have to be willing to be confronted by it, or work through it with the help of a professional, I'm afraid his hurts will continue to fester under the surface. In the absence of either of those things, the only thing I can think of is to acknowledge his pain with statements such as, "I know how much you are hurting. I wish I could take back the past for you but, of course, that's impossible." Being supportive without being condescending and without taking on his problems as your own (which he probably wants you to do) is a very narrow ledge .

I get where he's coming from, in a way. My siblings and I have to bash my father whenever we're together. It's a sort of catharsis. Nothing will ever be undone, but it's part of what we need to do. We dredge up the old hurts associated with his drinking and vent away. Then we're free to talk about other things, until the next time we get together <shrug>.

I think the difference is that we're a peer group -- all living with and through the same past. We came out of it with different perspectives and our conversations tend to be replays of each other. But, they're helpful in their own way.

Doesn't make it any easier for you or Mr e to be the shoulders that he cries on. Have you suggested professional help to SS?

Yes, a long time ago. I am going to suggest it again.

I'm know that it's very cathartic to discuss with siblings what went on while growing up, know that from my own experience, but how helpful is it when one insists on talking while the other is all talked out?

And of course, whenever he brings it up, his father relives the guilt all over again that pushed him into a psycho ward so many years ago.

Eoe--

I know how helpless/annoyed/exhausted/sympathetic you feel.

I'll be back.

If he is open to the idea of seeing a therapist, that may solve some of the problem.

He will then have a trained professional listening to his stories, and while the therapist would allow him time to rant and rave for a while, he/she would be able to then direct him with questions that will lead to more productive ground.

At least, that's how it worked for me.

Then, when he comes to see you, he may still talk about the past, but "my therapist said" will be incorporated into the conversations, and he will be working at resolving issues, not just rehashing them.

Aaaargh!


This is SO difficult.



It reminds me of my father, actually...who was still stuck in the same pattern....lovingly fondling each horrible memory when in his cups....and never able to make any progress. (And he had a lot of awful memories).


Technically speaking, it is the ability to reflect upon such awful memories and feel the pain, (without being overwhelmed by emotion), and make sense of them, and understand them that seems to make the difference.


What I suspect your stepson is doing is anaesthetizing himself with the alcohol until he can talk about his memories...but this very methodology denies him the ability to reflect AND feel properly. I suspect he may be retraumatizing himself as he does so.


I also suspect his lived resentment of his mother affects his ability to have positive relationships with women.......which no doubt you have already thought to be the case.


The benefit of therapy for him would be to deal with his trauma when he is not drunk, with someone who is fully able to be attuned to him, and with the skills not to let it just be the same old recounting of the trauma, with no resolution.


Anecdotally, abuse by mothers seems to be harder for folk to deal with than abuse by fathers, by the way.


I wonder if you could explain these things to him with great care and empathy when he is calm and sober? Let him know how much you care, but that you fear it does him harm when he gets drunk and relives his trauma? Also, that in social settings you cannot be with him in the way that he needs someone to be.


Is your husband his father?


If so, has there been discussion of what he did or didn't do to protect his son?

I am wondering if he brings it up at your place because there is anger with his father for not protecting him? This is certainly the case when it has been the father who is abusive...that there is deep anger with the mother for failing to protect.

I have no idea what the story is here, but in my experience the anger need have no rational basis...eg, even if one parent had no knowledge or power to stop the abuse, kids have magical beliefs that parents know all and are all powerful.

Usually, with unresolved trauma, the little kid inside still firmly believes this, and believes failure to protect means that the non abusive parent did not care enough, or colluded with the abuse.


How I deal with this is to have parent and "child", if possible, sit down together and discuss what happened, with the non abusive parent explaining why they did not/could not stop the abuse...apologizing if necessary and empathising with the abused person.



As I said, I have no idea of the situation here, s all this may be irrelevant.



Good luck!

Bingo! (I've always said that that damned rabbit was smarter than a whip)

Is it possible to just ask him not to drink when he is visiting?

It's not totally the same, but, my mother is a sweet person who turns into a repetitive, victim card holder when she drinks.
And she likes to drink - especially with family - to deal with her problems.

We don't hear any of this stuff when she doesn't have some lubrication. That's part of the problem, imo.

Anyways. My solution has been to only see her under the condition that she is not drinking. One beer, yes. Past that, no.

I have had to walk out on her because she twists it into it being a control thing. And such.

It's not. I simply can't deal with her drinking. I've tried everything, I just can't.

It's the only thing that has worked for me. As you already know so well, people don't go get help unless it is a decision they make inside. Dealing with someone who is drinking is not dealing with the person at all.

hope you find a solution that everyone can live with.

imo HE NEEDS PROFESSIONAL HELP QUICKLY !!!

do you know who his regular physician is ?
does he have any REAL GOOD FRIENDS you could talk to and who might be able to nudge him into the direction of good professional help ?
but it probably has to be done VERY carefully or he'll drop his friends .

perhaps you (or better his father !!!) might talk to someone from a mental health agency to get some advice

it sounds to me like a pressure cooker with the valve stuck shut !
there must be a deep underlying problem and trying to bottle it up is NOT going to resolve the problem .
he'll likely have to learn how to be able to get a handle on his feelings and learn how to steer himself in the right direction eventually .
certainly hope you'll be able to get really good help for him !
hbg

The other thing I was just struck by is how successful and ok this man is, generally speaking.


There's no point when he is drunk (can you close that bar?) ....but I would be interested, when he starts talking about his abuse, in wondering about how he has managed to do so well and survive so well in spite of it?


I would be interested in how he survived at the time, and how he has managed to become such a great young man.


At present, it sounds as though his narrative about himself, at least with you guys, is all about trauma and horror......embeded in that is a story of strength and survival.

That's what we try to get him to focus on, how he and his sister managed to grow up and succeed in spite of their mother. His father also tries to get him to realize, again, in no way belittling what they endured, that no matter how bad it was for them, it was worse for someone else. Just to give him some sense of perspective. He gets indignant at times and acts as if he's the only person to have ever suffered in such a way.

Yes, he is successful but okay? That I'm not altogether sure of. Like everyone, it's a certainty that he's got some heavy issues and who knows how difficult he can be around his friends. We've heard some stories from his sister, who has talked to some of his friends. I fear that with women, he's very high maintenance, demanding alot of attention, expecting alot of leeway in his behavior and no matter how successful, how handsome, how eligible, no woman in her right mind wants to babysit a grown ass man. I worry that he gets in his own way. Again, like most of us.

I believe in progress and after thirteen years, I've seen him make tremendous progress but when it comes to his mother, he can't get out of that rut. And I'm not sure if he really wants to. He can use the past abuse as an excuse, as a shield, as a badge like his father says, I'm afraid he may use it as his ace in the hole whenever necessary and that could be a reason why he doesn't seem interested in therapy.

And he never gets drunk. That's another thing that kind of baffles me. He may get a little tipsy but I've never seen him drunk. I know alcohol has a different affect on different people but I've never gotten loose lips or become a broken record after a couple of drinks. But that's me.

This is so what I want for him. Moving forward. Progress.

Can you just say, "I'm happy to have this conversation if it will help you heal and forgive your mother. But otherwise you're just re-abusing yourself." Then drop some extacy in his drink and come back in half an hour.

Or can you talk to him when he's sober about how he is when he's drunk? Making it clear, of course, that your primary beef is that it's a useless conversation and it doesn't help him feel any better or move him to a better place.

I read your question this morning, eoe, and I thought to myself that there is no way that I am a sophisticated enough parent to even provide a glimer of help.

But I might be a sophisticated enough sister.

There are four kids in my family. One sister remembers our childhood as a horrific place while the rest of us remember it as poor, but fun. We would shoot holes in her timelines and her memories of things but it never had an effect. It got to where none of us would really want to be around her.

After my father died she confronted my mother with her horror stories. My mother was SHOCKED and HURT and CONFUSED.

Still she would not drop it. On and on and on it went. My family could not be in the same city without this sister starting something.

After one visit home where she tortured everyone I sent her an email saying: I know we don't agree. I know we remember things differently. I don't know how our interpretation of our childhood could be so different. But I believe you. I know you're suffering. That bothers me and I'm sorry you hurt so much.

Amazingly she dropped it. It hasn't been an issue since. Now we see each other without problems. It's great.

I really don't know how it happened. I wasn't trying some trick.

So.... I don't know.... maybe you could start with his sister?

Not disagreeing with that advice FreeDuck, everyone is different, but for me having someone who loved me, or who I was drinking with, listen to my problems just didn't have the same impact as saying the same things to a therapist. I knew this person had the training, and that I went to her because I'd decided enough was enough.

Friends and family may even tell you the same things as a professional, but, at some point, the professional is going to take it a little farther, leading the person to ask themselves the right questions. At first, I found a real goal when she would mention how I reacted today about things that happened long ago, and to notice when I did that.

Aha! I'd think, an assignment for the week! It felt like I had "homework" something to guide me. Not just going over the same things again and again. When something came up that pushed old buttons, I had the tools to practice with to respond and feel differently. I really don't think people I knew, no matter how intelligent, could have pieced this plan together with me.

It's easy for someone in the middle of a rant to say "Yeah but...." to a family member. You can't get away with that with an impartial party.

Makes sense to me.