1
   

Jehovah's Witness refuses blood, dies

 
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 09:36 am
I know a JW woman who's child bled to death because of that rule in her religion.

She was not the same for a few years, and i would almost bet she converted to something else.
0 Replies
 
Elihu
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 10:52 am
Setanta wrote:
In fairness, this was a childbirth, not a surgery. It is entirely possible that the woman would not have consented to a donation to prepare for a transfusion because she did not anticipate the blood loss, and did not feel that procedure would have been justified.



The woman had a Caesarean section. That is surgery. And a hospital spokesman said:

"We briefed her about the danger (before the surgery) and we repeatedly urged her family to accept a blood transfusion. "

It may be true that even if JW's were allowed to predonate their blood for a future surgery that many wouldn't bother to do it, nevertheless, they should have the option.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 11:01 am
It is extremely rare that it is known well in advance that a C-section is needed, that is usually determined at the time the woman goes into labor. If you know for a fact that it was known well in advance that the woman would need a C-section, you might have a case. But there would be little point in taking blood to be transfused back into the patient unless they had several days or a few weeks to make up for the blood loss which the donation would have represented.
0 Replies
 
Elihu
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 11:17 am
I see your point. In this particular case there may have been no good reason to anticipate severe blood loss and prepare for it by predonating blood, however, in many other situations predonating blood would be the prudent thing to do.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 11:21 am
Yes, if you know it will be needed. I believe you stated, though, that the JWs won't do the donation/transfusion schtick for a period of more than a few days--when it is of dubious value. (If you donate just plasma, you can't do it more than twice in a week, and if you donate blood, you are only supposed to do it one each two months; i have type AB+, so i was often asked to donate once each six weeks, but not more frequently).
0 Replies
 
Elihu
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 12:31 pm
Setanta wrote:
I believe you stated, though, that the JWs won't do the donation/transfusion schtick for a period of more than a few days--when it is of dubious value.


You misunderstood me. Here are a couple of examples of what I had in mind. If a person has a blood disease they may have a procedure done where blood is removed, taken to a lab where it is treated chemically or with radiation and then put back into their body. Another procedure is used on those undergoing chemotherapy. Chemotherapy kills white blood cells. So there is a procedure where the white blood cells are removed from the patient prior to chemotherapy and then transfused back into them after chemotherapy. There are several medical procedures of this type that are approved for JW's. Predonation is not approved for JW's.

In the case of predonation, blood is out of one's body a couple of weeks before being put back in. In the other procedures blood is out of one's body a few hours or a day or two. But there is absolutely no Biblical basis for claiming one procedure is okay and another is forbidden based on how long one's blood has been out of one's body.
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 12:52 pm
I find it pretty, well, stupid to let the bible dictate your life. I don't think God or Jesus or whoever made the bible had blood transfusions in mind when they made that particular passage about blood.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 12:52 pm
I understand you better now. However, you walked into a mine field when you wrote: . . . there is absolutely no Biblical basis for claiming . . . --although i happen to agree with this in literally hundreds of cases of allegedly scripturally based practices, to those who raise the Bobble to the level of their god, their interpretation of what a text means has exactly the same value as if the scripture patently said what they claim it means, even when it patently does not say what they claim it means.
0 Replies
 
Elihu
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 01:10 pm
Setanta wrote:
I understand you better now. However, you walked into a mine field when you wrote: . . . there is absolutely no Biblical basis for claiming . . .


I stand corrected. I should have said that I've yet to see a JW cite a scriptural basis for claiming some medical procedures are okay while others are forbidden based on how long blood has been out of one's body.
0 Replies
 
Talkactive
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 01:56 pm
The Watchtower Society doctrines and the men behind are responsible for thousands of premature death casualties and bloodguilt! Deuterenomy 22:8.

The Watchtower Society's have banned vaccinations, organ transplantations and medical treatment with whole blood and derivates for decades and it seems to have its origin from C.J. Woodworth as described in the attached article below.

It is based on a doctrinal background without any Scriptural anchoring and nobody which have the capability to read and will give their lives for the Scriptures, in their own language and can understand the context, have never come to the same understanding and conclusion as the men behind the Watchtower Society.

They have maked the blood to an idol for their members and maked a symbol for life more important than the life itself and Christian principles. Life is sacred and the blood is only a metaphor for life.

When the Scriptures talks about blood in Genesis it was when a kill took place and to show respect for life, Noah was instructed not to eat blood and later on in Leviticus that it should be purred out at the ground was also as a health recommendation.

In Leviticus 17:15 were a Jew and an Alien, in an emergency situation, allowed to eat all the blood in a self dead and by a wild torn animal, only a ceremonial bath before evening and the matter was settled between God and the Jewish Society, since no kill has taken place and there was so to speak no life to be given back to God.

It has always been so that an emergency situation breaks the law and that is also valid in the Scriptures, but not in the eyes of religious leaders and their doctrines. John 8:44.

Even Saul's men was not killed when they eat the animals with all its blood in, only building of alters and the matter was settled between the men and God as described in 1 Samuel 14:31-35.

The Society have explained that taking a blood transfusion was the same as eating blood, which is pure nonsense, since injected blood do only what the blood was designed to do and if the body consumes the blood as nutria, we would all have been dead by now.

When this couldn't hold water, similar to their ban on vaccinations and organ transplantations and it becomes common knowledge that the blood is an organ tissue, the Watchtower Society was afraid for being charged for first degree murder and then changed their policy an placed the responsibility at their members conscience when it comes to fractions but withhold the ban on red, white blood cells, plasma and platelets and maybe most of all to avoid legal responsibility for all the premature death casualties their ban has coursed from the end of the fifties, since they have never admitted to be wrong in their whole history.

If we take a look at the Watchtowers latest instruction to their members in Awake from 22 August and November Kingdom Ministry from 2006 it can be seen that they allow that tons of killed animals blood can be used at their members in form of Hemopure from www.biopure.com.

The Watchtower Society's ban on vaccinations, organs and blood is nothing else than murder doctrines which have coursed the premature death of thousands of adult and children and their hypocrisy can be seen out of these examples.

They ban red blood cells, which constitutes 75% of the non water blood but allow the haemoglobin which constitutes approx. 72 % of the red blood cells, where the rest of 3 % are the donut, the shield that binds the haemoglobin together.

If a member of the Watchtower Society takes the red blood cells in one injection the person will be disfellowshipped.

If the same member takes the haemoglobin in form of Hemopure in one injection and the donut in another injection the person will still be in god standing and not be disfellowshipped.

The watchtower Society explains that taking Hemopure is a minor part ( 73 % of the non water blood ) of the blood and calls it fractions. At the same time they ban platelets, which only constitutes approx. 5 % of the non water blood and if someone raise questions to their doctrines they can risk being disfellowshipped and called apostates, since nobody will be informed about the reason for the disfellowshipment.

I saw a movie about the Peoples Temple and Jim Jones, witch used exactly the same threats and sanctions against his followers as the Watchtower Society do, which is nothing else than Mind Control.

The background for the start of this topic was due to a woman who bleeds to death since she refused to take a blood transfusion.

This could have been avoided taking the latest directive in consideration from the Watchtower Society, since she could have accepted Hemopure, even that there is a risk to be infected with the animal variant of CJD better known as BSE, mad cow decease.

The problem today is that the Watchtower Society have Mind Controlled their members to believe that it will displease God if they take any part of the blood into their bodies, due to that, many member still reject or abstain from derivates from blood, even the components that now are allowed by the Society, by the device, better be on the safe side and don't risk the everlasting life as teach and indoctrinated them for decades.

The Watchtower Society's doctrines is nothing else than first degree murder and it is amazing that religious groups can be protected by the Un convention about human rights from 1948 to be responsible for that thousands of people and their children have died a premature death and still do here in the year 2007. As a positive sign, it seems that the Authorities and Courts are going to change their view at religious movements.

There are always a risk involved when taking any form of medicine, whether it has it origin from chemical or organic substances, even when we need surgery, but in every case it shall and should always have been be up to each individual to decide for him/her self and their children, consulting several competent doctors and physicians, taking the risks and benefits in consideration, not from scrutiny religious leaders which are unfamiliarly with biology and the human body, mixing up religion and medicine into doctrines of men, with the same result as described in Jeremiah 7:31.

The blood issue has already been discussed in this topic: http://www.able2know.com/forums/about81075-0-asc-0.html

Links of interest:

http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2033&st=0

http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/blood_-_jensen_letters.html

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6861723185926041712&q=watchtower


The Watchtowers hypocrisy in the blood question can be seen and are documented at:
http://www.ajwrb.org


Christian love to all of you.

Talkactive.

Ecclesiastes 1:18!
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
People can't hear and carry the truth, because the lies are tickling their ears!

Jeremiah 8:8!
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.


C. J. Woodworth: The Demon Possessed Editor of The Golden Age

C. J. Woodworth was a major individual during the Rutherford period. He wrote the commentary on Revelation in the 1917 book The Finished Mystery. Rutherford made him editor of The Golden Age magazine (later called Consolation) from its inaugural edition in 1919 to 1946.

Ken Raines


In The Finished Mystery Woodworth wrote the following strange comments:

Have you enjoyed this work so far? Are you convinced it is of the Lord prepared under His guidance? Have you carefully and prayerfully read the comments on Rev. 7:1? Then brace yourself for the truth that it is evidently God's purpose soon to allow the minds of many of His little ones to become an open battle ground, upon which the fallen angels shall be judged, and the manner in which we meet the tests will prove our worthiness of crowns at the same time that it proves these disobedient spirits unworthy of life on any plane. This is something with which some but not many are yet familiar.... without actual experience it is quite impossible to conceive of the intensity of such struggles.... The base of the brain is seized as in a vise. Interpretations of Scripture, ingenious, but misleading beyond description, are projected into the mind as water might be projected through a hose. Visions may be tried, wonderful illuminations of the mind as by a soft but glorious greenish or yellowish haze. Seductive suggestions may be made, based on circumstances of the environment. Offers of inspiration may be made. The privilege of sleep may be taken away for days at a stretch. All this with the object of forcing the unfortunate into at least a temporary insanity.... the mind may be flooded with thoughts that are vile beyond description. THEN REMEMBER THE VOW. [2]

The comments on Rev. 7:1 he refers to contain quotations of Russell from 1911 and 1914 Watch Towers. In them Russell said the fallen angels that have been chained or restrained in darkness since the flood will be let loose soon and be judged by the church and by their actions. Russell said they will first attack his followers who he regarded as the "anointed" little flock. This would be part of the Time of Trouble culminating with Armageddon in 1914. One of these quotes from 1911 says:
There is only one way, so far as we can see, in which these fallen angels can have a trial, their trial consisting in having a fuller opportunity to sin, if they so desire, or an opportunity to show, if they wish, that they are sick of sin and desire to return to harmony with God.... we reach the conclusion that the trial of these fallen angels is in the near future perhaps to some already begun. [3]

C. J. Woodworth fulfilled this "prophecy" by Russell. In his comments quoted above from The Finished Mystery he appears to be speaking of personal experience. His description of demon possession is vivid: "The base of the brain is seized as in a vise. Interpretations of Scripture,... are projected into the mind as water might be projected through a hose. Visions may be tried,... as by a soft greenish or yellowish haze..." How did he know these things unless he is speaking from personal experience? He did say without personal experience it is impossible to grasp the intensity of the struggle one could have against demon possession.

That he personally had such battles with demons is documented by his own testimony of it at the 1913 Convention of the Bible Students in Asheville, North Carolina. A record of his statements is recorded in the 1913 convention report put out by the Society. His confession came during his talk on the Vow. He began by saying:
I WISH to speak to you of something that I certainly never intended mentioning at this convention. I presume you have all taken the vow, but perhaps some of you have not.
He said he didn't accept the Vow at first and thought it was something Russell "brought up himself" and that he wouldn't accept it unless he found it in Scripture. He then says:
Then began my troubles. I began to pray and to fight it in my own way with the Scriptures. After a few months the Scriptures apparently began to open up... demonstrating its unscripturalness. I thought that... Brother Russell was wrong...
After corresponding with Russell on the issue he said his nonacceptance of the vow led him to eventual demon possession and even automatic writing:
There was a time for five consecutive nights when I never slept a wink; then came a time when the strain was too much; my mind became unbalanced, and I came directly under the influence of evil spirits, so much so that for three days I was as completely under demonical control as was Mrs. Eddy when she wrote "Science and Health."
Previous to this time I had prepared a 36-page book against the Vow, printed in double column, in which all scriptures which seemed to be directly or indirectly against the Vow were arranged. I know now that all these Scriptures were suggested to my mind by the evil spirits. One of the suggestions was... (and this I believe was a truth, for these "lying spirits" do sometimes tell the truth) that in the fifteenth chapter of Numbers where it mentions the "Ribband of blue," it had reference, anti-typacally, to the Vow. But then these lying spirits turned the truth into a lie by claiming that the Vow had been suggested to Brother Russell by the evil spirits. See how clever they were! [4]

He goes on to say that after Russell pointed out a "mistake" in his book he took all his copies and burned them. He then said:
Until this time I had never settled in my own mind that Brother Russell was "That Servant.".... I never settled the matter until I yielded and took the Vow which he advised all the Lord's saints to take.... I firmly believe that this "ribband in blue" is the Vow and inspired of God...[ 5]

Goodrich's Recollection and Comments
In 1969 Roy Goodrich commented on Woodworth's "confession" of demon possession in his booklet Demonism and the Watchtower. Goodrich was a respected JW during the Rutherford period who got into trouble and was finally disfellowshipped over continually complaining to Rutherford and others such as Woodworth that the ERA machine (the Oscilloclast) that JW's were using was nothing more than a Ouija board. He used Woodworth's confession (and the ERA machines) as evidence of "demonism" in the Watchtower Society.
Goodrich claimed to have been at the convention and heard him say these things which surprised him to say the least. He does not quote from the report of the convention in his Demonism booklet, but appears to write from his memory of it. In the booklet he wrote:
FURTHER SIDELIGHTS ON SOCIETY DEMONISM C. J. Woodworth's Confession and Bold Prophecy
It was our privilege to attend our second Truth convention in the summer of 1913, at Asheville, N. C..... It was at that convention, when Brother C. J. Woodworth, the man who was the continuous Editor of THE GOLDEN AGE from its first issue in 1919 to the last issue of CONSOLATION in July, 1946 made a remarkable, never-to-be- forgotten speech. We vividly recall it. It was confession publicly, by Brother Woodworth, to the effect that he had been very seriously under the control of demons for some time; that under their influence he had written a book contrary to the teachings of Pastor Russell; that his battle with these intelligences had been terrific; and that only by the greatest personal struggle, had he by the grace of God been able to throw off their influence sufficiently to burn the manuscript which he had written... [6]

He later added:
Four and one-half short years later, the winter of 1916 and 1917, found this brother so recently and confessedly under demon control, feverishly and secretly writing the Revelation portion of "The Seventh Volume," "THE FINISHED MYSTERY", which was completed and released for circulation in jig time the following July. [7]

But our point here is this: On pages 126 and 127 of that volume... Brother Woodworth sets down the following, evidently from his own personal experience he had so graphically described in Asheville, four and one-half years previously:... [8]

He then quotes excerpts from these pages. It seems that Goodrich here is implying that since The Finished Mystery was completed "in jig time" and was written only a couple years after Woodworth publicly confessed to being demon possessed and that the book itself seems to promote the idea that his type of struggles are to be expected almost as a test from God (both of the fallen angels and the Church), that Woodworth was probably still under their control.

One assumes that Woodworth believed his battles were over (he doesn't state in his "confession" that they were), but perhaps what he wrote in 1917 indicates a rationalization to justify struggles that continued. What he wrote and published in the Golden Age doesn't indicate to me any end to demonic influences in his life. Perhaps my evangelical bias is showing through here, but they are filled with occultic and demonic material.

The Golden Age

This spiritual or mental condition of Woodworth, if continued, could explain not only the contents of The Finished Mystery, but the occultism and "demonism" in The Golden Age magazine he edited. The previous journal documented one such occultic and demonically inspired item he endorsed &endash; the automatic writing book Angels and Women. He believed the book was "dictated" to the author by a fallen angel who was "tired of sin" and wanted to repent. This fallen angel was "judged" as being honest and repentant (as opposed to the ones that communicated with him earlier that he judged as being wicked). The fallen angel shed some light on pre-flood conditions in the book he said. He thus promoted "new light" or Biblical interpretation and history from demons&endash; as long as they were repentant and honest, not simply "lying spirits." As he said in his "confession": "these lying spirits do sometimes tell the truth" and when they did, he believed and promoted their ideas!

A good sized book could document and discuss many other examples of his publishing and endorsing material in the Golden Age that was of an occultic nature. A major area that had occultic or "demonic" associations are the numerous food, health, and medical items printed in The Golden Age. One of these, the "ERA" theory and devices of Dr. Albert Abrams is being documented in this journal as I believe it shows how these endorsements involved many in the JW movement, including prominent ones, in the occult (part one is in this issue).

I may decide to document others at some point. The point of the current series though is to document Rutherford's occultic and demonic involvement and why I believe he was a spirit medium. Rutherford himself claimed spirits projected Biblical interpretations into his mind and thus seems to have had similar channeling experiences to Woodworth. The difference being Rutherford firmly believed these spirits were not wicked but holy.

Rutherford's leadership involved others in the Bible Student/JW movement in the occult as well. I believe some of this should be documented to show the effects his leadership and example had on others. The placing of Woodworth as editor of the Golden Age did much to involve many in the Watchtower Society in the occult and thus demonic influence.


References and Footnotes:
1. Thirteenth Souvenir Convention Report, p. 274.
2. The Finished Mystery, 1917 pp. 126, 127.
3. Ibid., p. 124.
4. Thirteenth Souvenir Convention Report, p. 274.
5. Ibid., pp. 274, 275.
6. Roy D. Goodrich, Demonism and the Watchtower (Ft. Lauderdale, FL: The Bible Way Publications) 1969, p. 11.
7. Ibid., pp. 11, 12.
8. Ibid., p. 12.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 02:00 pm
Spammeister Talkactive wrote:
Christian love to all of you.


Oh yeah . . . you're the very living embodiment of Christian love.

(I suggest you look up the term "ironic humor," and the read again what i've just written.)
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 10:48 pm
Coolwhip wrote:
I find it pretty, well, stupid to let the bible dictate your life. I don't think God or Jesus or whoever made the bible had blood transfusions in mind when they made that particular passage about blood.
HMM!

Neither did the bible writers anticipate the harmful effects of recreational drugs. But interestingly, the bible, in warning against the practice of spiritism, uses the Greek word 'pharmakia', (druggery).
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 05:15 am
I tend to forget that God is omniscient...
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 05:16 am
[/sarcasm]
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 11:34 am
boomerang wrote:
But she died in a way that will send her to Heaven so I suppose everything is A-OK.

Probably not so. Not even by her beliefs. Are the JW the group that believe heaven has a finite number of people allowed in? Her death seems redundantly meaningless.

I have JWs in my family, I hope they don't do anything stupid like this.
boomerang wrote:

Poor dear.


T
K
Obituary.
0 Replies
 
Elihu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 12:30 pm
Hi Neologist,

You said that you are willing to answer questions and provide a defense for the JW stand on blood. Here's a question:

Do JW's consider having blood injected into their veins to be a violation of the Biblical command to "abstain from...blood"? (Acts 15:20,29)
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 12:32 pm
Coolwhip wrote:
[/sarcasm]
Define omniscient as you believe it applies to the concept of God,
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 12:34 pm
Elihu wrote:
Hi Neologist,

You said that you are willing to answer questions and provide a defense for the JW stand on blood. Here's a question:

Do JW's consider having blood injected into their veins to be a violation of the Biblical command to "abstain from...blood"? (Acts 15:20,29)
Absent all the what ifs you are about to present, yes.
0 Replies
 
Elihu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 12:45 pm
Are you unaware that JW's have medical procedures performed on them where blood is injected into their veins?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 12:46 pm
Re: Jehovah's Witness refuses blood, dies
Elihu wrote:
OSAKA (Kyodo) A member of the Jehovah's Witnesses died last month after giving birth by Caesarean section and refusing a blood transfusion, officials at Osaka Medical College reported.

Did someone nominate him for the Darwin Awards yet?
0 Replies
 
 

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