Jehovah's Witness refuses blood, dies

Quote:

The Torah prohibits consumption of blood. Leviticus 7,26-27; Leviticus 17,10-14. This is the only dietary law that has a reason specified in Torah: we do not eat blood because the life of the animal is contained in the blood. This applies only to the blood of birds and mammals, not to fish blood. Thus, it is necessary to remove all blood from the flesh of kosher animals.

Kashrut: Jewsih Dietary Laws
www.mechon-mamre.org

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I feel sorry for the child that will be raised without a mother, and will probably suffer the same brainwashing. As for the nutcase mother-Darwin Award.

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Re: Jehovah's Witness refuses blood, dies

rosborne979 wrote:

Elihu wrote:
Jehovah's Witness shuns blood, dies

Thursday, June 21, 2007

"We briefed her about the danger (before the surgery) and we repeatedly urged her family to accept a blood transfusion. But in the end we respected the patient's wishes,"

I wonder if they would have respected her wishes if she believed that the magical space aliens told her not to accept a transfusion.

At what point are people's beliefs considered simply delusion?

Well, Mussolini once said that religion was a mental disease. Maybe he was on to something :wink:

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Hello to all of you!

It's very interesting to read all of your posts and as I can see they contain items about religion, the Scriptures and religious movements doctrines, where I especially have found the Watchtower interesting since they claim to be God's chosen channel on earth, but have sent more persons into a premature death than Jim Jones in Guyneas Jungle afforded, in their relatively short lifetime based at their interpretation and maipulation of the scriptures as doctrines of men.

To start somewhere I like to begin with the Watchtower Society's doctrines and view at vaccinations, posted by and documentated by Bangalore in another forum, where they have Mind Controlled people and sent thousands of members and their children into a premature death based at threats with sanctions, that persons who don't obey their doctrines will loose Gods favour and their chance for everlasting life, being disfellowshipped and shunned if they don't conform to everything, at anytime, coming from the Governing Body, the men behind the Watchtower Society who have appointed themselves as spokesmen of God.

Quote:

Regarding Vaccinations here is what the Watchtower had published on the subject many decades ago.

*** The Golden Age 1921 Oct 12 p.17 ***
Vaccination never prevented anything and never will, and is the most barbarous practice... Use your rights as American citizens to forever abolish the devilish practice of vaccination

*** The Golden Age 1923 January 3rd, p.214 ***
The public is not generally aware of how large an industry is the manufacture of serums, anti-toxins and vaccines, or that big business controls the whole industry...

...the boards of health endeavor to start an epidemic of smallpox, diphtheria, or typhoid that they may reap a golden harvest by inoculating an unthinking community for the very purpose of disposing of this manufactured filth...

Vaccination summed up is the most unnatural, unhygienic, barbaric, filthy, abhorrent, and most dangerous system of infection known. Its vile poison taints, corrupts, and pollutes the blood of the healthy, resulting in ulcers, syphilis, scrofula, erysipelas, tuberculosis, cancer, tetanus, insanity, and death.

*** The Golden Age 1924 Jan 16 p.250 ***
It has never been proven that a single disease is due to germs.

*** The Golden Age 1929 Aug 25 pp.751-754 ***
Disease [is] caused by fermentation and heat... not germs. [It cannot be] proven [that] any disease was caused by germs [including] so-called infectious diseases... chicken pox and small pox

*** The Golden Age 1929 May 1 p.502 ***
Thinking people would rather have smallpox than vaccination, because the latter sows the seed of syphilis, cancers, escema, erysipelas, scrofula, consumption, even leprosy and many other loathsome affections. Hence the practice of vaccination is a crime, an outrage and a delusion

The Golden Age, November 13, 1929, pp. 106-107 ***
Avoid serum inoculations and vaccinations as they pollute the blood stream with their filthy pus.

*** The Golden Age, Feb 4 1931 pp. 293, 294, 297 The Sacredness of Human Blood (Reasons why vaccination is unscriptural) ***
...the vaccination law reduces the father and mother to mere slavery, almost as bad as the colored people were in, when their children were put up on the block and sold. In many slave-sale cases the mother and father were even forbidden to shed tears.

Vaccination is a direct violation of the everlasting covenant that God made with Noah after the flood.

Vaccination has never saved a human life. It does not prevent smallpox.

*** The Golden Age, Feb 4 1931 p. 293 The Sacredness of Human Blood (Reasons why vaccination is unscriptural) ***
Quite likely there is some connection between the violation of human blood [vaccines] and the spread of demonism...

*** The Golden Age, Aug. 5, 1931, pp. 727-728 ***
Mr. West mentions so-called "syphilis." Why does he not prove that there is such a disease? He simply accepts the existence of the protean monster on faith.... We do well to bear in mind that among the drugs, serums, vaccines, surgical operations, etc., of the medical profession, there is nothing of value save an occasional surgical procedure. Their whole so-called "science" grew out of Egyptian black magic and has not lost its demonological character. By their own admission, more deaths are caused by their practice every year in this country than from any other cause. We shall be in a sad plight when we place the welfare of the race in their hands.

Readers of The Golden Age know the unpleasant truth about the clergy; they should also know the truth about the medical profession, which sprang from the same demon-worshipping shamans (doctor-priests) as did the "doctors of divinity." ... These readers know the truth about the politicians, who also descended from the same line of "children God" or "children of the Sun" as did the priests and medicine men. Hippocrates was the grandson of Apollo, and... medicine originated in demonology and spent its time until the last century and a half trying to exorcise demons. During the past half century it has tried to exorcise germs. Its methods are the same in both efforts at exorcism, and instead on injuring the demon or the germ, the injury is often to the patient

*** Consolation, March 22, 1939, p. 21 ***
...the irrefutably logical fact that serums and vaccines are products of contamination...rise in cancer is attributed to the use of serums...for the best part they are but handicaps to inherent healing forces of the human body...these are by-products of pus matter...in reality and action it is worse than the proverbial "seven plagues"...One may go through life without having serious manifestations of what has been injected into his blood-stream, thus thinking he was "immunized", but, suddenly, it may begin its satanic work on his child, or even "unto third and fourth generation".

*** Consolation, May 31, 1939, p. 3 ***

[Vaccination is a "cruel hoax" on mankind by Satan himself.]

Seems very weird does it not?

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore

With Christian love to all of you.

Talkactive

Ps. The Watchtowers hypocrisy can be seen at www.ajwrb.org

Ecclesiastes 1:18!

For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
People can't hear and carry the truth, because the lies are tickling their ears!

Jeremiah 8:8!

How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

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Oh hgreat, we have another Om Sig , except without the pistol.
I think Id rather listen to neo, hes not one who types in crayon type like some mental case.
I was always interested in the life of Charles Russell , quite a colorful character no?

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Scott777ab wrote:

neologist wrote:

I am perfectly willing to answer questions and provide a defense (in my own clumsy fashion) for the Watchtower stand.

For the Watchtower stand! Neo.
Tsk! Tsk!
Your standing up and defending the wrong thing.
The thing you should be defending with your life.
Is the Word of God.
Not the Watchtower.
Tsk.
Tsk.

You are quite right, of course, Scott. It is never appropriate to substitute man's word for the scriptures.

I was wrong.

And I certainly do not claim the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to have been always correct. They are a human organization.

Anything else?

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Talkactive wrote:

Hello to all of you! . . . [/b]

Well, hello.

Glad to see you are still on topic and your radar is working.

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Say Talkactive . . . do you need to gring that axe a little, or is it sharp enough for your purposes?

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Re: Jehovah's Witness refuses blood, dies

Coolwhip wrote:

Well, Mussolini once said that religion was a mental disease. Maybe he was on to something :wink:

Right, so she died from intense exposure to a dangerous Meme. Of course, she might have been genetically predisposed to a lack of immunity (skepticism) from such Memes.

But I suppose the same might be said of anyone who chooses to do something risky. Skydivers, Boxers and Astronauts all choose to do risky things. Their motivations are different, but they can have the same result.

For most of us, this lady's choice was considered 'unnecessary'. So I guess the difference is our perspective.

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farmerman wrote:

Oh great, we have another Om Sig , except without the pistol.
I think Id rather listen to neo, hes not one who types in crayon type like some mental case.
I was always interested in the life of Charles Russell , quite a colorful character no?

Mornin' Farmer.

Tweedle Dee found his way back in a hurry.

Where is Tweedle Dum?

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Re: Jehovah's Witness refuses blood, dies

rosborne979 wrote:

Skydivers, Boxers and Astronauts all choose to do risky things. Their motivations are different, but they can have the same result.

All of those people also take all due precautions (such as reserve parachutes, ring-side physicians, escape procedures, etc.), and are not known to refuse any reasonable help which allows them to pursue their risky ends in as much relative safety as possible. The astronauts of Apollo 13 did not just throw up their hands and say: "Oh well, it must be the will of god that we will die." There is a significant distinction here in that this woman would have been alive today had she availed herself of a simple and relatively risk-free medical procedure.

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Setanta wrote:

Say Talkactive . . . do you need to gring that axe a little, or is it sharp enough for your purposes?

I'll have to check my shorts to see if Talky has installed a global posting device of some sort.

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Re: Jehovah's Witness refuses blood, dies

Setanta wrote:

. . . . There is a significant distinction here in that this woman would have been alive today had she availed herself of a simple and relatively risk-free medical procedure.

How can you say that with medical certainty? She died several days after surgery.

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Symptomology for chronic and critical blood loss has developed far as a result of lessons learned from the battlefield. Like hypothermia, death isnt always a sudden "symptom", it can take days and the progression of symptomology is reportedly easily interpreted by competent physicians. I dont think her death was unexpected due to te nature of the hemmorhaging. I wonder whether the physicians tried extending her life with administering H2S in sublethal doses to cutoof the bodies use of O2 , or using estradiol to cut down on enzyme reactions that promote O2 usage. Would the JW have allowed that kind of prophylactic treatment to "buy her time" until her own body produces more blood?

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farmerman wrote:

Symptomology for chronic and critical blood loss has developed far as a result of lessons learned from the battlefield. Like hypothermia, death isnt always a sudden "symptom", it can take days and the progression of symptomology is reportedly easily interpreted by competent physicians. I dont think her death was unexpected due to te nature of the hemmorhaging. I wonder whether the physicians tried extending her life with administering H2S in sublethal doses to cutoof the bodies use of O2 , or using estradiol to cut down on enzyme reactions that promote O2 usage. Would the JW have allowed that kind of prophylactic treatment to "buy her time" until her own body produces more blood?

My guess would be yes. Any non blood medical procedure would have no scriptural reference in this case.

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Re: Jehovah's Witness refuses blood, dies

neologist wrote:

Setanta wrote:
. . . . There is a significant distinction here in that this woman would have been alive today had she availed herself of a simple and relatively risk-free medical procedure.
How can you say that with medical certainty? She died several days after surgery.

What Farmerman said. The first corps of medical specialists in history (apart from the Chinese, who were not consistent in sending physicians out with their armies) were the surgeons who accompanied the armies of Louis XIV in the 17th century. There have been dedicated battlefield surgeons in all European armies since that time. The use of the tourniquet has been known for literally thousands of years, and has been used to stabilize patients, even at the risk of losing a limb, so that they would survive what otherwise might have been catastrophic blood loss. It does not even require modern medical sophistication to understand this, either. During the battle of Shiloh in 1862, the Confederate commander, Albert Sidney Johnston, was struck behind the knee by a spent musket ball (i.e., a musket ball which was at the extent of its range). The wound barely broke the skin, and did no damage at all to the joint or any bones. But it struck in a soft-tissue area with lots of blood flow. Johnston had a few minutes previously sent his surgeon to tend to Federal wounded in the "Hornet's Nest" area of the battlefield. Johnston's boot filled with blood, and he finally fainted, and fell from his horse. He was dead in under an hour, and his surgeon was almost beside himself with frustration when he was finally called in, just as Johnston was dying. The application of a tourniquet would have not only saved his life, but would have actually saved the leg, which was not badly damaged at all.

This technique has been known since the time of the ancient Greeks. There are some things which are so medically obvious that you'd have to be pretty damned hard headed not to understand how easily they can be dealt with.

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Re: Jehovah's Witness refuses blood, dies

Setanta wrote:

neologist wrote:
Setanta wrote:
. . . . There is a significant distinction here in that this woman would have been alive today had she availed herself of a simple and relatively risk-free medical procedure.
How can you say that with medical certainty? She died several days after surgery.

What Farmerman said. . . .

Yeah, but Farmer also provided the exceptions to medical certainty.

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No, Farmerman pointed out methods by which a patient may be stabilized in the hope of avoiding the consequences of massive blood loss--that does not constitute "exceptions." The point is, that there was little doubt that this woman would die due to blood loss--the only question was whether or not there was a way to stabilize the woman in the very faint hope that her own system could make good the blood loss. I rather suspect that competent physicians took every measure available to them consistent with the patient's strictures. If you allege otherwise, then you would need to show that her death was the result of malpractice.

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JW's are now allowed to have medical procedures performed on them where blood is removed, stored, taken to a lab, treated in some manner, and then transfused back into them a few hours later or even the next day but they are forbidden from predonating their own blood for an upcoming surgery. Why? In the past JW's would have answered that injecting blood into the veins is the same as eating it but how do they answer now that these new procedures have been approved? Is having your own predonated blood put back in you a few weeks later the same as eating it but having blood put back in you a few hours later or the next day isn't the same as eating it?

Either transfusing blood is the same as eating it or it isn't the same as eating it. There is absolutely no scriptural or logical basis for making a rule that blood that is out of one's body a day or two can be put back in but blood that is out of one's body a few weeks can't be put back in.

The JW woman that died from refusing blood may still be alive if she had been allowed to predonate some of her blood a few weeks prior to surgery.

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In fairness, this was a childbirth, not a surgery. It is entirely possible that the woman would not have consented to a donation to prepare for a transfusion because she did not anticipate the blood loss, and did not feel that procedure would have been justified.

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Jehovah's Witness refuses blood, dies

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