my take on the democrat debate tonight

OK, then SNOOD, details!

This seems to have a fair amount of quotes:

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Democratic_hopefuls_face_off_in_New_0603.html

I like the 4 1/2 years too late quote, I think. (What was Edwards' position at that point? I don't remember.)

ossobuco wrote:

I seem to remember that Obama signaled several weeks early he would vote for the funding without a withdrawal date.

He voted against, I think - Hillary too.

1. Edwards
2. Richardson
3. Obama
4. Clinton

In no particular order. I would be satisfied and feel confident in the abilities of any of the above.

Richardson / Edwards would be a great ticket, IMO. A newer guy with someone that has some diplomatic experience. Same with a Richardson / Obama ticket.

I dunno. Biden seems too entrenched, inside.

The difference over [whether there is a] difference [between the candidates on Iraq] was the main point of contention [..].

Clinton wants to play down the fact that until recently she was out of step with Democratic primary voters [..]. So on the stage she pointed out that "we all believe we need to end the war." She added that whatever disagreements exist among the Democrats [..] are trivial given that every major Republican running [..] supports the president on the war. "This is George Bush's war," she declared.

It was a typical frontrunner's performance. Focus not on the rivals in your own party but on the other side. [..]

Edwards [..] needs a line of attack on Clinton and [..] Obama. So at the debate, he maintained there's an immense gap between himself and the other two. [..] He noted--correctly--that when the recent Iraq war funding bill was up for a vote in the Senate, he vociferously urged the Democrats in the Senate to say no to Bush, while Clinton and Obama went mum. Sure, Edwards went on, Clinton and Obama ended up voting against the funding, but they did so "quietly" and said nothing about how they would vote before the roll was called. [..]

Edwards had a point--but perhaps a minor one. [..] And at the debate, Obama had a good comeback. "It is important to lead," he said, adding "I opposed this war from the start...not years late." [..]

So among the [three], there's a candidate who was initially against the war and now pledges to end it, a candidate who voted for the war and now pledges to end it, and a candidate who voted for the war and now pledges to end it and who criticizes his [..] opponents for not being sufficiently passionate [..]. Viva la difference? Or not.

Clinton hopes to blur the edges; Edwards needs to sharpen them. Meanwhile, [if Obama] and Clinton are at the same place now on the most critical issue for Democratic voters, he's going to have a tough time upsetting her apple cart. [..] Bottom-line (for those keeping score at home): it was a good night for the former First Lady.

THERE WERE no big winners last night, but there were two figures who managed to stand out [..]: Barack Obama and Joe Biden.

Obama [..] won several verbal duels with John Edwards, who was aggressively trying to draw distinctions with him and Hillary Clinton on Iraq [..]. "[y]ou're about four and a half years late on leadership on this issue," he noted, in a tone that managed to be both pleasant and pointed. [..]

All in all, Obama's was a strong performance, one that gave away nothing at all to the front-runner, Clinton, who came off as smart and competent, but for all that, didn't turn in as many memorable moments.

Of the second tier candidates, it was Biden's night. Biden was forceful -- and funny -- about letting gays and lesbians serve openly in the military. The candidate who seemed most knowledgeable about foreign affairs, he also spoke powerfully and passionately about establishing a no-fly zone to help end genocide in Darfur.

Everyone running against Hillary Clinton has the same problem. And the problem's name is George W. Bush. [..] It's tough to make points against Clinton when she keeps insisting that the debate is actually about the guy in the White House [..].

Let's just say the rest of the field is studying the tape now, trying to figure that one out. They never laid a glove on her. Not moderator Wolf Blitzer, who didn't seem to try that hard. [..]

John Edwards had a game plan. He would come out swinging. It might have worked in the first half [..] when the candidates were standing behind lecterns. In the second half [..] they were seated. You try to swing from a seated position. I had trouble just listening to a two-hour debate from a seated position.

In the first Democratic debate, [..] everyone wrote that the debaters were much too nice, including Edwards. This time, Edwards would mix it up [..]. Edwards looked - depending on your point of view - either assertive or desperate. What I mean is, he looked - again, depending on your point of view - either like a lawyer or a, gasp, trial lawyer. [..]

Obama noted that Edwards made the wrong vote back in 2002 on [Iraq]. This was the counterpunch of the night. [..] And then Clinton threw her own punch - at the president. "[T]his is George Bush's war - he is responsible for this war," she said. "He started the war. He mismanaged the war. He escalated the war. And he refuses to end the war."

And there you have it. It's a big applause line. It's Bush's war, and how much does it matter if Clinton has had, uh, varying positions on the war? How much does it matter if she didn't read the NIE report before she made her 2002 vote to authorize force in Iraq? [..]

I don't mean to say Edwards had a bad night. He just didn't have a good enough night. Obama didn't have a bad night. In fact, after his performance in the first debate, all he was trying for was "most improved."

I heard a lot of people saying that Joe Biden did well. You don't need to write that down. Nobody broke out of the second tier, meaning you won't have to read any more Mike Gravel stories.

[T]he headline from this debate is that nobody made up any ground on Clinton.

Clear differences are emerging among the top three Democratic presidential candidates on security, with Senator Clinton breaking with her rivals in affirming the war on terrorism and declaring that America is safer now than it was six years ago.

[..] John Edwards [..] said he rejected the use of the phrase "war on terror," which he derided as a "bumper sticker". Mr. Obama [..] said that even though the country has not suffered another major terrorist attack since September 11, 2001, "we are living in a more dangerous world, not a less dangerous world, partly as a consequence of this president's actions."

Mrs. Clinton distanced herself from each statement. "I believe we are safer than we were," she [said].

[On] the humanitarian crisis in Darfur, Senator Biden [..] pleaded for swift action, including the possible use of military force [..]. Governor Richardson [..] suggested threatening to boycott the 2008 Olympics in Beijing [..]. Senator Dodd of Connecticut shot down the idea, saying it "goes too far." [..]

Mrs. Clinton [..] appeared to enjoy the exchanges. She laughed at several points during the debate [and] tried her best to deflect much of the criticism onto the Bush administration [..].

"The differences among us are minor," she said, referring to her fellow Democrats on the stage. "The difference between us and the Republicans are major."

That drew disagreement from two of the long shot candidates [..], particularly [..] Michael Gravel, who said the war was "facilitated" by the Democrats. "Sure, it's George Bush's war," he said. "But it's the Democrats' war also." [..]

Hillary did not do well. Early on, she was outmaneuvered by John Edwards and Barack Obama on the war. Edwards succeeded in portraying himself as the most over-the-top in the anti-war caucus. Obama's put-down of Edwards' Johnny-come-lately approach to the issue won him the exchange. [..]

I have a growing sense that John Edwards is their weakest general election candidate [..]. His inconsistencies are easily defined, nay, laughed at [..]. As he races to be the most left-wing candidate, I keep wondering: where was he in 2004? [..] His run for VP was thoroughly lackluster. He got slapped around the stage by Dick Cheney in the debate. [..]

The key moment in the debate came when Dennis Kucinich said he would take no action if there was actionable intelligence about Osama bin Laden's whereabouts. [..] None of the candidates used this to tee up their Commander-in-Chief credentials in the same way that Ron Paul was drop-kicked in the GOP debate. [..] Obama gave the right answer, but without passion. Inexplicably, Hillary went off on a vague non-sequitur about these being complicated situations [..]. That's the moment where she lost the debate.

If there was a question where even Democrats could show some bite and passion on national security, you'd think it's [..] the fight against al-Qaeda. Save for Joe Biden, I saw none of that this entire debate. [..]

"I believe we will see some changes in the 2008 US Presidential Elections odds over the next two days," predicts Gambling911.com Political betting analyst, Carrie Stroup. "This may be a good time to get in on Obama at somewhat long odds compared to what they may be in the coming days."

SEN. CLINTON: Wolf, let --

MR. BLITZER: All right. Hold on. We're going to save our applause till the end, please.

Senator Clinton.

SEN. CLINTON: Wolf, let me add that we faced that in the Senate last year, as to whether we would or would not vote for it. The problem is that if it becomes official, instead of recognized as national, which indeed it is, it is our national language, if it becomes official, that means in a place like New York City you can't print ballots in any other language. That means you can't have government pay for translators in hospitals so when somebody comes in with some sort of emergency there's nobody there to help translate what their problem is for the doctors.

So many of us -- I did, at least -- voted to say that English was our national language but not the official language because of the legal consequences of that.

Edwards probably did himself the most good.

He looked tanned and confident during the session. He argued forcefully for quickly ending the war in Iraq and for his national health care plan. He tweaked Clinton and Obama for not speaking more forcefully against the war. [..]