Thinking patterns (and how to minipulate them)

Mind altering drugs more often than not change people's life rapidly for the worse where mind altering scriptures "of truth" change one's life for the better.

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Ecstasy has brought millions peace of mind... that doesn't mean we should all do it and mandate its use to others.

Do you mean, chemical ecstacy or the natural variety? If you can achieve ecstacy naturally, I'd certainly advocate "doing" it and not exactly mandate using or employing whatever gets you there to others, but firmly suggest it. I think that definitely would transform the world.
(And I'm not implying it would be reading the Bible or Christianity for everyone).

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Prozac has brought millions peace of mind... that isn't evidence that it links our mind to the divine.

Not exactly...not from what I read or have heard reported from the people who need to take antidepressants. I don't think you could call it peace of mind-it sounds more like lack of anxiety or panic or dread- and just about the furthest away you could get from "a link to the divine".

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I've read the entire bible cover to cover.

I have too. It doesn't confirm my belief in anything. I've just read it in the past (and still do) because I like the language and some of the ideas, themes, concepts and characters- especially Jesus. I'm more fond of him than God though- except when I think of God as the creator of this earth. But I'm not that crazy about how God interacts with humans in the Bible-that's where I think Jesus does a much better job.

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I think if more people did that, they'd abandon Christianity.

Obviously, a lot of people have seen it differently.

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Mind altering drugs more often than not change people's life rapidly for the worse where mind altering scriptures "of truth" change one's life for the better.

I wonder if all those who have had their lives ruined because they let themselves be brainwashed by som sect leader would agree with you.

Of the two choices named, I think drugs are the least harmful. They do not seek to penetrate your mind and reprogram you.

I'm still waiting for a succinct answer to the original question of how to change thought patterns. I think chumly probably had the most practical idea so far. But it seems some here think you need to have some fundamental spiritual change in order to make thought pattern changes and have them "stick."

Do I have that right?

The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.

Yea, it probably was a lie. But isn't everything? Our naming things and categorizing them results in a dualistic orientation in the world, both physically and mentally.

You'd probably say you know the truth, and not the lie. As much is implied in your statement. And for all I know you do know the truth. Only, when you try to tell it to me you lie involuntarily. This truth is a concept of absolute unity, and as such, it cannot be conveyed by relating aspects to eachother as we usually explain something concrete.

You might say that god punishes all sinners. To me that could sound like a lie. But if I knew your entire reasoning, even the parts you are not aware of yourself, I might understand the truth you were trying to convey.

And that is the way of words. Due to the grammatical restrictions of our language, to tell the truth would take longer than to experience it. You'd have to talk your whole life, and you'd never finish, because words are simply inadequate.

But the mind goes beyond words, and what needs thousand pages to describe can be concieved in the mind as one single concept in a split second.

Adian,

Thanks for your quick and exacting reply. You hit the nail right on the head.

I used the word suppression because I knew it was a touchstone word that is used by the psychiatric community.

I think we both brushed on this subject a couple thousand posts back.

True "suppression" seem like a bad choice of word.

Suppression would indicate that our undesirable thoughts always remain lurking under the surface. Yet indeed this is how our habit patterns seem to function. We can over come our suppression by the miracle of God over time.

YET often with the old mind thinking they seem like they have been replaced then they rear their ugly head when a person is weak and at the most inopportune of times.

When a person feels good about themselves and they come up and say, this anger is justified or just one drink won't kill me and so on 'till people end up back in the same boat being swept downstream with the flow of the minds negative currents.

These thoughts need to be simply cast down. But the rationalization of the ONE mind says they cannot just ignore them because they are woven into the fabric of the seemingly only mind that they have to use to also make vital decisions. So the mind appears to have a monopoly and an ability to justify the needs and wants no matter the cost. The heart blinds the mind of it's duty to the self and people are easily led astray by the dictates of the wants over the needs.

Ridding the self of some of the habit patterns are often linked to a persons very survival. Yet it seems on a daily basis we witness people failing to resist the minds influence and going out in a flash of negative brilliance.

I am not disagreeing that suppression is not a good word but I think that is what in essence must be done. When we resist the OLD mindset enough the mind (devil) will eventually flee from the pursuit.

One must acquire a NEW MIND to overcome the old mind. Eventually the entire old mind must become rendered irrelevant. One must distance themselves from the normal thinking patterns and when these unwanted thoughts occur then they proclaim to themselves... "that thought came from the old mind." (not my will but thine be done)

That a person becomes conscious and believes to the extent that the new mind works where the old mind is irreparably broken.

HERE WE GO... (please take the time to read these carefully) Keep in mind the MIND...

2Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Comment: Is casting down the same as suppressing?

Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

1Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Comment: The new person inside is created by God for us to utilize.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Comment: The new person or mind is adorned thought by thought.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Comment: Suppress/resist the devil and he will eventually flee.

Ephesians 6:11
Put on the whole armour [mental "athletic" gear] of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle [athletic imagery] not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Comment: Again this is with the NEW inner person

Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Comment: Does our understanding have "EYES"? If it has eyes then there must "biblically" be a whole inner person in the mind.

Many people do not know what a psychological document the Bible is. It is a wealth of truth concerning the thought and it sets right many of the errors of the psychological world.

For instance it is one thought at a time not one day at a time. And to dwell on our shortcomings are to only magnify them we have to take two minds and eventually let the mind of Christ (over time) win out. Cast down the thoughts realizing they are part of the mind that was corrupted by the mind of the world. (not out of law but the law of liberty)

It is a thought by thought process. Our habits are sewn together in the mind like a strand of entwined threads. Each thread represents a habit. Like undoing macrame. You unfold one thread over and then unfold the next. Each thread goes deeper into the psyche.


Ephesians:16
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man [person];

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference


Comment: The chruch has the believing capacity (faith) of Jesus Christ embodied in the new mind that God freely creates in us. This new mind is to help believers overcome these suppressed desires. So one should go to God FIRST for help to become "perfect" instead of becoming perfect then going to God.

Mt 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Comment: A believer can only overcome the old mind with the new mind, created in Christ Jesus unto all good works.

So it is a constant renewing of the mind thought by thought realizing the a the old mind is seriously flawed and incapable of change on it's own.

Because the old mind lives by the nature of the world (flesh) where the new mind lives by the nature of God (spirit).

The old nature gets worse and worse (this is what corruption means biblically) where the new nature gets better and better.

Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

2Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Ephesians 6:4 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate [heart] of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Comment: The new person inside the mind has the loins, heart and feet of the will.

Loins = commitment center of the will
Heart = the believing center of the will
Feet = the action center of the will

So if a person is not acting (feet) on their new minds will perhaps they are not believing (heart) properly and if they are not believing properly perhaps they have not made a commitment (loins)... the precesses of the mind progress in that order.

Isn't the word of God magnificent?

Peace with God

Actually, I think everyone knows the truth. It is hardwired into us. Words tend to get in the way though, so most of us think we don't know it because we cannot articulate it.

Mind altering drugs more often than not change people's life rapidly for the worse where mind altering scriptures "of truth" change one's life for the better.

Take your pick

Actually, I think everyone knows the truth. It is hardwired into us. Words tend to get in the way though, so most of us think we don't know it because we cannot articulate it.