missing WMD expert is found dead!

I didn't dig into Vince Foster. I heard a lot of allegations in the news--Hillary had had an affair with him--he'd been lied to by the Clintons, and couldn't bear the position it put him in, because of a high personal level of veracity--

When Primary Colors came out, and the Kathy Bates character was a thinly veiled reference to Foster, my eyebrows raised...

But, you can't make any rational judgements based on all that.

However, when goofy, baseless accusations are hurled at Bush or other GOP types (not to be confused with legitimate accusations)--I have been known to throw Foster in the mix. One stupid turn, often begs for another...

I think Vince had a well-documented history of depression--of course, that could be a good fact to deflect inquiries-- maybe like this Kelly guy.

Anyway, I have to wait to see the story unfold.

I don't think so Piffka. There have been a few unexplained deaths in the UK in recent years. Murder by automobile, an unexpected ride on the underside of a Tube Train can be fixed. If the Executive decides all it needs is a phone call. Afterall, the Gov had no compunction in sending troops to the Gulf knowing that some would not return. Life is cheap when you have the power.

JJ - Have the media changed their report on what the packet of pills was? I thought the BBC said co-proxamol.

Sofia, Co-proxamol is not an anti-depressant, it's a pain-killer.

From that BJM report: "Co-proxamol is a prescription only analgesic that combines paracetamol and dextropropoxyphene. Respiratory depression and consequent death may occur with overdose due to ingestion of excessive dextropropoxyphene."

I find the whole story horrible and shocking. Hard to believe that Blair can weather this storm. Even if it does turn out to be suicide, the government will look like they've hounded him.

Just to add another twist... I read in
Another News Story that four years ago while he was in New York, Dr. Kelly became a BaHai. They are adamant in the belief that suicide is wrong:

Sofia, Co-proxamol is not an anti-depressant, it's a pain-killer.
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Thanks, Piffka.

I'm reminded more of Cliff Baxter, the Enron vice chairman who drove down the street and shot himself, than I am Vince Foster.

I'm just reminded of the other scientists who died mysteriously in a short period of time. I thought of Wellstone. I know what we're capable of -- after all, we advertise it in our culture.

Why did this poor guy kill himself?

I am not your easily engaged conspiracy theorist. And immediate reports sure make it appear to be suicide. Still, this is very icky.

I am sorry to say I paid no attention at all to the Vince Foster reports. I read a few, with no resulting sense of it.

But various descriptions don't ring true for a guy about to do a suicide thing.
Hah, piffka, I know this from all those mysteries. Yes, that and years of life.
I know it is a great blow for a quiet smart person, as they keep saying, this battery of questioning he has been through, and I can understand that, I had to do a deposition once and nearly died of anxiety, but it is a jump to become quickly suicidal. He was very recently combative on email.

I don't know statistics. How may people send combative emails before walking in the woods and committing suicide? Is combative a pre-stage? I would guess the opposite, but I don't know.

I can also guess that one's whole life could seem to unravel. Hey, I know about it. Usually people move on.

Among the things we don't know about is his communication with his wife, how close she actually was to him. She is a party here...who may or may not be close to him at this last week.

Perhaps people prefered the short pain of a silent (dead) Kelly, rather than the long pain of a speaking Kelly?

The BBC has disclosed that Dr David Kelly was the source for its controversial report claiming Downing Street "sexed up" an Iraq weapons dossier.
BBC says Kelly was weapons source


And here the text of the BBC statement:

Here's more comment on this tragedy, answering some points raised earlier here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3080699.stm

McT

I must say, having read the BBC link (McTag's), and then Andrew Marr's comments, and looking carefully at photos, and just putting myself back in a time when I lived in London and had some personal connections with Broadcast House, I can fully see a gentle, thoughtful man disillusioned and exhausted taking his own life. I'm not convinced of that, mind you, but I think it's possible. I recommend Marr's piece, a link from McTag's link. Marr demands a look at how the various entities which benefitted from Kelly's work treated him: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3081203.stm

I'd also recommend getting hold of a video of that old flick "Ploughman's Lunch," which -- though fiction -- gives a not inaccurate view of the relationships among hot-shot intellectuals, the government, the media -- and the values.

Well, BBC is updating now very fast - as do other media.


Politics and Media (by The Guardian)

Here's a comment from the BBC "Have Your Say" which mirrors what I think:

I am forming an opinion--but it is subject to revision, as details are released.

This guy didn't want his identity known. He slammed the govt, and accused them of lying in their Iraq documents. The gov had every right to hear the informer's remarks, and know their source, IMO. They pushed the issue, and the BBC revealed Kelly's identity.

It seems the govt was attempting to lessen Kelly's role after his grilling but before his suicide, and said they believed Kelly wasn't the primary source for the BBC's article--when they knew full well, he was. This leads me to believe Kelly had an extreme desire not to be known as the informant, and had convinced the British govt not to name him as the primary informant for the BBC's headline.

It was only after his death, that the BBC admitted Kelly was indeed the major source of the articles accusing Campbell and Blair of fabrication.

----------------
Here is some of an MSNBC article.

DISTRESS OVER ALLEGATIONS
Police confirmed on Saturday Kelly had slit his wrists as his family described his distress after being thrust into the spotlight Here.

Well, yes, freedom of the press is term of the past.

Piffka and others interested in why I mentioned the Vince Foster death:

I began searching online for all the news coverage of the "suicide" because this was a key part of the Clinton/Starr Whitewater investigations and ALSO the Lewinsky investigation by the US government. Very interesting that it is now hard to find online references to this huge controversy at the time! I bring this up because it is very very similar to the treatment of the death of Dr. Kelly. It is in the interests of many sources that his death is attributed to suicide. I am not a big fan of conspiracy theory, but I do have a long memory in regard to many news media free-for-alls that suddenly seem to "die out". I am really wondering if the present attention on this WMD expert will prompt someone, anyone to make the connection. Following are notes and links I have copied from what I was able to find:

http://www.swlink.net/~hoboh/
Vince Foster page
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Kenneth Starr Claims Credit For Dissipating Controversy In Foster Death

In his prepared remarks before the House Judiciary Committee regarding the Lewinsky matter, Kenneth Starr told the committee and the American people that he and his office were "uncompromisingly thorough' in their investigation of the Foster death, and claimed credit for dissipating the "controversy" regarding the Foster death investigations.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Failure Of The Public Trust
On November 1, 1995, Patrick Knowlton testified before the Whitewater grand jury regarding the death of Vincent Foster.
On June 23, 1999 a document was filed in the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, Special Division for the Purpose of Appointing Independent Counsels. The Document was filed under seal, on behalf of Patrick Knowlton.

On September 14, 1999, the three-judge panel of the Special Division of the Court ordered that the filing be unsealed. The document is is 511 pages long and cites 184 exhibits.

The document is titled Failure Of The Public Trust, and proves a cover up of the facts surrounding the Foster death
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

The federal investigative records on this web site prove the existence of an FBI cover-up into the apparent murder of deputy White House counsel Vincent Foster. Given the scrutiny we are told our government has given the case, this proof challenges the assumptions that many of us have about our government and our news media. This evidence is profoundly disturbing.
http://www.fbicover-up.com/
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

There is overwhelming proof of the media's keeping the facts from public view. For example, in September of 1997, the three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals ordered Mr. Starr, over his objection, to attach evidence of five separate aspects of the cover-up to his office's report on Mr. Foster's death. Despite its obvious historical significance, the news media reported the contents of Mr. Starr's report, but not the existence or contents of its court-ordered appendix. Many people, including journalists, dismiss the existence of a cover-up in the case based on the absence of its being reported in the news. But this reasoning is based the premise that the American press would report evidence of a cover-up. A review of the facts and developments in the case proves that this premise is false.
(See http://fbicover-up.com/dreyfus/dreyfus1.htm)

Great connective tissue you've got there, Cobalt! I sometimes wonder whether I'm a conspiracy theorist at heart or whether we are in fact subject to manipulation by media. Of course I know it's the latter! In the same way that you thought of Foster, I thought of Wellstone. I'm willing to bet you that if you examined the Bush family and associates' history (ugh!) that it would contain, as so many families of that ilk do, the convenient, "necessary" destruction of others. Not necessarily death, but destruction.

Thanks, Cobalt, for finding those. I understand what you meant, now... had no idea that Vincent Foster's death could have been anything other than as reported: a sad suicide of a weak man.

Re: Tartarin and Piffka

I had forgotten that many folks are speculating about the Wellstone death, too! The Foster investigation lasted six years - six years! And likely only because the Starr investigation was so determined to find any dirt possible for the Clintons, whether with Whitewater or Monica. After all this time, look how easy it is to pass by connections that may be important to remember when you look at any media coverage, anywhere...

Also, sidenote: from my own experience hunch, I sincerely doubt it is very hard to "turn the screws" sufficiently to many people and they do not have to be "weak" for suicide to be considered as a viable option to current nightmares of pressure.