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Bonds, steroids, ect...

 
 
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 09:19 am
He's close...11 more to tie Aaron.

Thoughts? Hall of Fame worthy? Is the record "tainted?"

Thing that pisses me off most about this guy isn't the fact he's a juice head, but he keeps bringing race into it. However he's so publicly racist himself it's ridiculous.

Either way, I think he deserves a spot in the Hall, steroids or not. He's arguably the best hitter of his generation. What can you do about the record though? It will be broken, and he'll forever be known as a cheater...
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 4,936 • Replies: 66
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 09:24 am
I think he's a putz and ruins the record because he cheated.

I can be a star too if I cheat.
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 09:28 am
Bella Dea wrote:
I can be a star too if I cheat.


While it can be argued he wouldn't break the record without juice, there's tons of pro baseball players also doing it, and they don't have a fraction of the talent Bonds has. That doesn't make it any more right that he cheated, however.
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 09:56 am
Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:
Bella Dea wrote:
I can be a star too if I cheat.


While it can be argued he wouldn't break the record without juice, there's tons of pro baseball players also doing it, and they don't have a fraction of the talent Bonds has. That doesn't make it any more right that he cheated, however.


Didn't your mom ever tell you just because others are doing it - it doesn't make it right?

I agree anyone who cheats - doesn't deserve the recognization - not just Bonds, but any others.

Bonds is an a$$ on top of it.
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 09:57 am
i guess it all boils down to whether bonds is willing to lie in front of congress...
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 10:11 am
Linkat wrote:
Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:
Bella Dea wrote:
I can be a star too if I cheat.


While it can be argued he wouldn't break the record without juice, there's tons of pro baseball players also doing it, and they don't have a fraction of the talent Bonds has. That doesn't make it any more right that he cheated, however.


Didn't your mom ever tell you just because others are doing it - it doesn't make it right?

I agree anyone who cheats - doesn't deserve the recognization - not just Bonds, but any others.

Bonds is an a$$ on top of it.


That's why I said it doesn't make it right, but pointed out he's not a star because of steroids...he was considered one of the best before his head physically tripled in size.
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 10:12 am
...and his balls shrivled to raisins.


He is good yes, but good enough to break the record without the juice?

Or when all else equal, as good as the "greats" before him?
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 10:16 am
Bella Dea wrote:
...and his balls shrivled to raisins.


He is good yes, but good enough to break the record without the juice?

Or when all else equal, as good as the "greats" before him?


The problem is you don't know for sure if he would have broken the record without steriods.

Rose went against the rules and they are keeping him out the Hall of Fame even though he was a great player.
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LionTamerX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 10:16 am
I remember when Hank Aaron broke the Babe's record... I was a little kid, and a complete baseball freak. To me, it was one of the most exciting things that I had ever witnessed . A few months later he came to my town for an autograph signing, and I waited for half an hour or so along with a couple of hundred wide eyed kids for our chance to meet the legend. He was as nice and personable as you could imagine, witty, good natured, and even humble.

Of course, the Yankee fans in our town talked about what a jerk he was.

I think I'm going to just follow Mr. Aaron on this one.
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 10:35 am
i read somewhere that since bonds has few fans outside of san fran, the giants will give him days off to insure that he hits #756 at home...
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 10:51 am
Region Philbis wrote:
i read somewhere that since bonds has few fans outside of san fran, the giants will give him days off to insure that he hits #756 at home...


I heard Bonds said he was going to sit out on away games if he was about to break it. Pu$$y.
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Greyfan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 05:39 pm
Bonds breaking the home run record will make the home run record less significant in popular culture.

Bonds in the Hall of Fame will diminish the hall. (As would the election of Maguire and/or Sosa)

Baseball will continue the long, slow slide to obscurity.

The villain of the piece in my opinion is Bud Selig. Bonds and the rest of the steroid generation should either be thrown out, or applauded. Bud just sits in his office doing neither.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 07:15 pm
I wonder how many of the old timers cheated with drugs, though.

Competitive athletes looking for an edge in their performance are certainly nothing new.

I came across an article online that states, "the first competitive athletes believed to be charged with doping (taking drugs and other non-food substances to improve performance) were swimmers in Amsterdam in the 1860s. Doping with anything from strychnine and caffeine to cocaine and heroin, spread to other sports over the next several decades."

I know amphetamines were big in the fifties and sixties within different sports.
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 08:34 pm
Greyfan wrote:
Baseball will continue the long, slow slide to obscurity.


That is a way extreme. The home run chase between Sosa and McGuire brought in some crazy ratings. Anyone with half a brain knew they were juicing. People aren't going to stop loving the game & buying tickets because some guys get caught with steroids.

InfraBlue wrote:
I wonder how many of the old timers cheated with drugs, though.
I know amphetamines were big in the fifties and sixties within different sports.


It is, and was a very popular drug. Look up that drug with Hank Aaron and you'll see he most likely took them. Even though steroids have been around that long, they weren't as common in mainstream sports as they are today.

Good friend of mine was in the minor leagues for 5 or so years. One summer I went to TX to see him play for a weekend...he told me only 4-5 of the guys on his team(AA)weren't openly on steroids. And just to point out how you can't always tell who's using just by looking at them, he was one of the biggest guys on the team and has always been natural. A lot of them were average size, around 6 feet, 190lbs. Besides power & size, they give you a huge boost in recovery. Steroids are not uncommon in sports....seriously, look at the bodies in the NBA & NFL now vs. 20 years ago.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 09:08 pm
Yeah, well, it's part of my diminishing interest in sports - though I'm still somewhat interested in sports, I give less of a sht than I ever did re records, and which bicyclist, batter, buffoon, is all jumped up to make some mark.

My longtime interest started when I was a bored teen and roamed the local library for short stories... some of which were Sports Stories of the Year, say, 1947, sort of boring looking library books full of - to me then - wonder. I was always as much interested in sports sociology, individual situations, and team situations, as with anyone's statistics. It was the humanity behind the efforts that was helpful for me to know about, and, whatever is left of my interest, still the compelling element.

The cheating stiffs those who don't. On the other hand, cheating is very human. Messes up the stats for me, though.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 04:43 am
Still doesn't explain for me why some of the same idjits so up in arms about Bonds would give Sosa and McGuire a pass.
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 06:32 am
snood wrote:
Still doesn't explain for me why some of the same idjits so up in arms about Bonds would give Sosa and McGuire a pass.


McGuire sure the hell didn't get a pass...for one, the media beat the Andro thing to death, and I've already heard a lot of sports writers saying they're not voting him into the Hall of Fame.

Not to mention Bonds has admitted to taking steroids(although saying he didn't know what they were), while the other two have kept quiet about it.

Bonds has more controversy around him because the all time record is more "cherished." Being a flat out a$$hole doesn't help him either. Sosa is a liked personality around the league.

I always thought it was funny Sosa's name didn't come up more though. Guy's face looked like a water balloon, it was ridiculously obvious.
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Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 09:48 am
The issue bothers me most when I think of how baseball has evolved since the beginning. There are guys in the hall who were literally playing 100 years ago.

I've been flipping through The Glory of our Times, which is an oral history told by guys like Rube Marquard, Hank Greenberg, etc. The guys who played very early in the 20th century were highly skilled in an activity most people thought was just strange, before it became America's pastime. Before baseball's golden era, such players drifted off into obscurity after they retired, many of them with no money at all.

Now the "heroes" of the game are goddamn mutants who **** cash.

I still love the game though, due in large part to the fact that I listen to games on the radio. Listening to Bob Uecker call Brewer games is not just a play-by-play, it's a history lesson. He puts the story and the mystique and the strategy into the game, and on the radio, the game sounds just like it did fifty years ago (I mean, for al lI know).

Try it. All you who feel the game is dying should give it a shot. And it's a great excuse to waste three hours and kill a couple beers.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 10:06 am
Quote:
Now the "heroes" of the game are goddamn mutants who **** cash.


Yeah, those from yesteryear were much better - like Ty Cobb, the foul and proud racist alcoholic.

Don't get me wrong. I think Bonds is an a**hole. I just don't want to lose perspective about some of the gems already in the hall.
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 11:02 am
i thought this summed things up pretty well --
[i]Bahstin Globe [/i]columnist Bob Ryan wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. To me, Babe Ruth was the home run champion of the Booze and Broads Era, Hank Aaron was the champion of the Greenie Era, and Barry Bonds is about to be the champion of the Pharmaceutical Era.
(source)
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