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Why are better educated people less religious?

 
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2010 10:23 pm
@ossobuco,
Osso, remember how we used to say goodnight to everyone who was tuned in to a thread on Abuzz????
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2010 10:24 pm
@ossobuco,
Oh yeah. My ducks are in line and in order. But I'm old.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2010 10:28 pm
@ossobuco,
I don't want to push you one way or the other, not least because I don't know what I would do.
What I most wish, is that you could express yourself more. You are uptop in the most literate of a2k, but never mind literate, wise.

I still have no opinion re your talking with your husband. I don't know if he is completely occluding or you are in fear of that.
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2010 11:46 pm
@Kara,
Kara wrote:

It sounds as if you are both a bit free-thinking. Your own bond is more important than these other issues. A perfect union.

A long way from perfect! I think for me it's probably lucky that my wife's faith is, well, "weak" isn't the right word but the lack of official religion, and her dislike of organized religion is probably crucial to our success thus far. It would be quite different I think if she was a staunch Catholic or similar.
With small kids, our direction is set for the near future also, and I'm just a little envious of your directionlessness. From here your lack of direction looks a little like "freedom". You are suddenly free to make more choices for yourself, but don't want to ruin your life (or anyone else's) by "going native".
(I'm just hypothesizing, I may be way off, and I apologize if I'm being rude in any way.)
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 12:10 am
@Kara,
Two friends of mine got married . . . in 1977? . . . maybe. The date is not important. My friend whom i had by then known for several years was then working as the handyman at a Presbyterian church, and was marrying a woman he had met a few years after i had met him (i was in the army with his sister), and the preacher had enthusiastically urged them to marry in his church. So my friend asked me to be the best man, to which i agreed. The preacher's last name was almost the same as mine, but spelled slightly differently. The Irish will understand: his is the Protestant version, and mine is the Catholic. When my friend introduced me to him, he asked me what religion i practiced, so i told him honestly that i practiced no religion. He was careful not to spoil the happiness of my friends, but he let me know that he despised me. He would give the most evil glares when he knew my friends would not see it. I never knew if that was because i had once been a Catholic, or because i was now irreligious. But it didn't really matter to me, so long as he had sufficient decency not to spoil the happiness of my friends, and he went at least that far.

But i've thought about it often since that time. There was nothing remotely Christian about his attitude, and him a putative minister of the gospel of Jesus, who is supposedly the Prince of Peace. At this point in my life, i realize that there are damned few genuinely charitable people in the world. Almost anyone can work up ordinary decency, but so few can resist the temptation to despise others for what they believe . . . or what they won't believe. I think precious few Christians take to heart the injunctions of their boy Jesus . . .

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.


(Luke, Chapter Six, verses 27 throgh 30, in the King James Version)

I am not the enemy of Christians, i do not hate them, i do not curse them (provided they leave me alone), i do not use them despitefully, nor smite them, nor take from them what is theirs. Yet i could count on the fingers of my hands the number of self-professed Christians who, knowing my irreligion, have treated me as they are enjoined to do in those verses--when it would cost them nothing.

I am, in fact, amazed that you've prospered in your relationship as you have. My characterization of it would be that love and mutual respect can overcome the suspicion and contempt which seem to flow all to easily from religious people, in despite of the injunctions of their creed.
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2010 12:47 pm
@Eorl,
Eorl, I think it is important to talk about things....ANY things. I have come to believe that my husband may fear having his faith tested by talking about the philosophical issues he knows I would raise. Things like: if your god is all powerful and all merciful, how do you explain suffering? I've found that some religions resort to "it's a mystery" when they run across unanswerable questions.

My lack of direction is not freedom. And I don't think of my life-long search for knowledge as any kind of direction; it is an inner drive that makes me seem "difficult" or contentious at times, because I always question any conclusion until I understand where the theory or line of reasoning is going or will end up. My mate says I am "quarrelsome." I'm sure I must seem so.

I've been married for 52 years, and I don't consider marriage a sacrament but a contract that I won't break without deep consideration. What I meant by your perfect union is that the bond between you is strong enough to withstand differences of opinion and style and belief. The very bond between you is the strongest thing in your marriage.
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2010 12:51 pm
@ossobuco,
Osso, I appreciate that you wouldn't push me one way or another. And I just like to trade thoughts and ideas, which is why I go on A2K. But there are so many ranters and ravers on some threads that even the best topics that I want to discuss reasonably among fellow posters ends up in a throw-down of testosterone. Then I get discouraged and pull away from the forum for a while, except for my all-time favorites like What BOOK are you reading? Or Really Bad jokes....etc.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2010 01:07 pm
@Setanta,
You always have something worthwhile to say, Set. And I agree with the thoughts you've expressed here. I know marvelous Christians and not so marvelous ones (I think the best ones are good in spite of being Christians and not because of it.) I have known many church-going people who will admit that they don't really believe in god, that they go for the sense of community, shared values, social reasons.

I don't know if one would say my relationship has "prospered." Perhaps endured would be a better word. I had six children in my heedless youth and they had to be raised (which I enjoyed) consuming most of twenty-five years. After that many years, there is an accumulated wealth of shared experience and commitment that add to the contractual bond. Although I thought often of moving on, I couldn't abandon the aging parent who lived with us. When she died in 1996, I had my first real opening but by then I was old enough that hesitation took over...and inertia surely played a part.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2010 01:58 pm
@Kara,
Kara, I certainly would have enjoyed having you as a neighbor.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 02:59 pm
@Phoenix32890,
Phoenix, this is a very sophisticated sociological interpretation.
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George
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 03:14 pm
Kara~
I don't know whether I can offer any insights, but I consider myself Catholic
and my lovely bride is most definitely non-Christian. We've been married
thirty years and have raised three children. She puts up with my beliefs and
practices without agreeing with them. I reciprocate. It works for us.
~George
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 03:02 am
@stlstrike3,
Apparently they did not survey the fraternities and scull and bones cults alumni from the elite and most astute campuses on earth. I guess they don't call that an "after life" they call it transmutation or some other weird wording where the become reptiles and get stars named after them. Not religion but cultism and scientism, same thing in my hat. So after life may not be their own buzz word but ask these supposed smarter than the rest, "educated people" (well they have the paper to prove it) if they bowed down to the horned goat god pan while they were initiated in college fraternities and their greek pantheon... Did they pledge a vow of silence? There, you have your answer. The most educated people I have ever known personally, secretly spoke some sort of gibberish they learned from the satanic verses... I had to sort of overlook that to get any actual work done...
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 03:34 am
Quote:
I don't know whether I can offer any insights, but I consider myself Catholic and my lovely bride is most definitely non-Christian. We've been married thirty years and have raised three children. She puts up with my beliefs and practices without agreeing with them. I reciprocate. It works for us.


It should work for everybody, George.

Religion should stay a private dialogue between a person and his "god"...

Unfortunately, it's not so.

See the number of clueless christians that come here trying to shove their stuff down the throats of people that couldn't care less.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 04:21 am
@stlstrike3,
Quote:
Why are better educated people less religious?


Because our education system such as it is any more is geared towards turning out yuppies and not scholars. An honest statement of the question would be more like:

Quote:
Why are better indoctrinated people less religious?


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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 04:24 am
Gungasnake wrote:
An honest statement


Ouch, we know already that honesty is down the drain!

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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 07:21 am
Right. We are the indoctrinated ones.
Joe(us. the ones without doctrine)Nation
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 08:50 am
My wife's attitude is, "You believe what you want to believe. Just don't foist it on me." In over thirty years, we have never had a spat concerning atheism/religion. We never sought to influence the kids whether to believe or or not. To us, it's actually a non issue.
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 09:56 am
Because they have been taught to reason not follow blindly.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 12:55 pm
@au1929,
Hey! Good to see you!
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 04:14 pm
@JLNobody,
Thanks, JLN.
0 Replies
 
 

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