dinosaurs and petroglyphs

Yak. Haw haw. Stop it. You're killing me.

They are dragons NOT dinosaurs.

It looks like the man in that petroglyph is carrying a cell phone.

Another piece of Indian rock artwork from the area around lake Superior apparently, Agawa Rock. This one has dorsal spikes and seems to be of the same family as the stegosaur; no modern animal has dorsal spikes.

Indian oral traditions, according to experts, described the "water panther" as having a sawblade back and a spiked tail. Stegosaurs and one or two other dinosaurs also had spiked tails; no modern animal does.

I know, I know, people and the whole world pretty much has been telling you that dinosaurs died out 65,000,000 years ago all your life.

Think about it though. In 1400 most people had heard that the world was flat all THEIR lives. That didn't really make it flat.

When you were little, the whole world told you that Santa Claus and the Easter Rabbit and tooth fairy were real; you found out sooner or later they weren't.

This is simply another such case.

I like the smiley face on the dinosaur. It reeks of authenticity.

The ancient version of Hannah-Barbara.

You know Gunga, when you say it this way, you have a point.

Have you read Beowulf?

ebrown: On his head, surely?

Oh, yeah, moving dinosaurs up to within the last ten or twenty thousand years doesn't really leave room/time for any sort of evolution, does it?

Evolutionism is another sort of a fairytale for grown people which you're going to have to give up on sooner or later.

And you consider the Bible to be....?

Another data point or piece of evidence dealing with man's past.

The bible generally describes two kinds of things which we have not seen in many centuries, i.e. worldwide catastrophes such as the flood, and direct communication with the spirit world via prophets, familiar spirits (e.g. the ghost story of Saul, Samuel, and the witch of Endor), gadgets like the ark of the covenant which was most likely an electrical device of some sort, and finally through the ministry of Christ.

The fact that we have not seen something in 2000 or 2500 years does not provide any support for any sort of a claim that nobody ever saw it prior to that. We don't see mammoths today either, but our ancestors assuredly did.

Gunjasnake wrote

Oh wow!-If dinosaurs are only 10 or 20 thousand years back thats within the 50,000 year limit (10 half lives for C-14) dating.

Rap

"very accurate renderings". That thing from Newspaper Rock looks like the head of a buffalo, with the backside of a perch. Its the famous "percalo", sung about by the Indians around the campfires.

We have petroglyphs along the Susquehanna alos and they contain lots of obvious UFO's .

Next Gunga will regale us with the scientific objectivity of Vine Deloria.

yeh but rap, theres nothing on the drawing to date. And the nearest Stegosaur is at some gas station near Albuquerque.

Ever wonder why you don't read about blowhards flying P38s like that one they found under the 260' of ice (the whole world except "farmerman" expected them to be under three or four feet of ice and snow)?

That's right: Allison engines had their own superchargers and they didn't NEED blowhards flying them....

You lost that debate gunga. "Nobody expected " the plane to be under a few feet of snow when its been shown that the area in SOuthern Greenland (a glacial "ABLATION: zone),that still gets about 7 ft per year and that could have accounted for 250 ft of snowpack, no different than the US Rockies. What you cant admit is that your asshole heros like kent "Dr Dino: Hovind is just a clueless lying sack of **** , who , while claiming to be a Christian, is a fraud, cheat, and a newly minted felon.

I can only point people to working definitions, blowhard, I can't make anybody read them. Try sticking with two-syllable words, "ablation" is one over that.

Gunga, while youre divining tea leaves, see if you cant get involved in some of these arguments from DU Wise, one of my old teachers with a great sense of humor (but very little patience with Creationists).
This article was published in American Scientist, March/April, 1998, vol. 86, n. 2, p. 160-173.
Introduction
___________
This manuscript proposes a new approach for science's battle against the rising influence in America of pseudo-science and the Creationist movement. The framework of Creationist Bible-based earth history, focusing on Genesis and the Noachian flood, can be assembled into a single geologic time scale (Figure 1, enlarged by addition of many geologic facts, difficult for Creationists to explain. (Figure 1 is an abbreviated version of the time scale outlined in the following paragraph which was redrawn and published by the American Scientist.) Some of the items are so absurd that all but the most dedicated fundamentalists will see the overall picture as scientific nonsense, even bordering on humor, a most rare commodity in Creationist literature. Science, rather than using its traditional defensive approach of item-by-item rebuttal of Creationist attacks, needs to take the offensive by challenging Creationists to defend their "scientific" view of earth history as represented by this time scale. (Note that the numbered items in this Time Scale are further expanded in subsequent numbered sections which are keyed to these same numbers.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Creation "Science" Geologic Time Scale
(1) 4000 B.C. Creation Week: (laws of science suspended)
Day 1 - Space, light & dark, earth materials.
Day 2 - Waters above and waters below.
Day 3 - Earth's crust and plants.
Day 4 - Sun, moon, and stars in place.
Day 5 - Atmosphere + animals of the waters.
Day 6 - Land animals + Adam & Eve.
Day 7 - Day of rest.
1,500 years. Pre-Flood "Geology." Laws of science invalid.
(2) Adam and Eve, talking snakes, etc.
(3) World's waters are in great Venus-like atmosphere or in ground
water. No rain, no ocean basins.
(4) Radiometric dating invalid; speed of light changed.
(5) Humans, dinosaurs, mammals, the "works," all live together in
peace. Both lions and Tyranosaurus Rex are vegetarians in Eden before
the "fall."
(6) Human life spans up to 900 years.
(7) Battle of Satan and angels produces craters on moon.

Flood Year: Flood "Geology" - ONE (?) year of normal (?) "science"

Rain - 40 days
(8) Big animals run to mountain tops. Not a single dumb human caught
in all the early flood sediments. All dinosaurs washed off only in
middle flood-time.
(9) Coral reefs (Guadalupe Mountains of Texas) grow to thicknesses of
half a mile during single year.
(10) Vast coal beds accumulate one on top of another, each as original
swamp deposits on order of 100 feet thick, all in one year.
(11) Mile-thick salt formations in Utah form by evaporation (!) of
seawater during (!) the flood.

Flood - about 250 days.
(12) Most of the world's sedimentary rocks dumped on continents to
average thickness of one mile, almost entirely during the flood year.
(13) Most continental drift occurs. Flood waters drain into the newly
formed ocean basins. Atlantic opens at average rate of 1/2 mile per
hour.
(14) Most deep sea sediments (average about 1,500 feet thick) collect
on the newly opened ocean floors.
(15) Hawaiian volcano built 30,000 feet high on new sea floor. (Cools
enough for birds and plants from Ark to colonize soon after end of
flood year.

Final Retreat - ? 100 days ?
(16)Volcano of Mount Ararat built 7,000 feet high underwater and cools
in time for grounding of the Ark.
(17) Successive Yellowstone ash beds bury 10 to 27 forests one on top
of another, all grown during single year.
(18) Grand Canyon cut by receding flood waters. Flood sediments
de-water and harden in one year to rock strong enough to stand as
steep, mile-high cliffs.

Post-Flood Geology - 4,500 years of normal (?) science to
Present
(19)From Ark, Noah (?) directs streams of distinctive animal and plant
communities to migrate to Africa, Australia, South America, etc.
(Ferry service ?) (Some creationists use post-flood continental
drift at rates up to one mile per hour !)
(20)Sun stands still for Israelite battle. Earth stops rotating and
then starts again due to near-miss by Venus out of its orbit ?
(Velikovsky)
(21)Only one ice age as post-flood atmosphere cools.
Geologists' abundant evidence of many great ice advances
separated by sub-tropical vegetation and development of thick soil zones
between some advances are wrong.
(22)Late-flood granite masses, formed at 1,000 degrees (F.), cool to
present low temperatures at rates in violation of all laws of thermal
physics. Fit to radiometric dates is mere coincidence.
(23)Extreme rates of continental drift typical of flood (1/2 mile per
hour) suddenly slow to present-day laser-measured rates of inches per
year. Accord of present rates with radiometric dates is mere chance.
(24)Coral reefs (Bikini, Eniwetok) grow 1/2 to 1 mile thick in first
1,000 years (rate of one foot per month) then slow to present measured
rates of inches per century.
[/quote]

While P38 Allisons had superchargers, the E and F British"castrati" versions of the airplane did not, and, they only had right rotational engines. Thats why the damn plane probably crashed in the first place. Because those British versions of the P38-E , had an annoying habit of flipping over in mid air and needed a few thousand feet of clearance to right themselves.