ebrown_p wrote:It looks like the man in that petroglyph is carrying a cell phone.
And the dinosaur is smiling, awwwww, how cute.
Life could always be harder. English is a simplistic language; a blowhard who can master a few three and four syllable words in English can sound like he knows something. Other languages like Hindi or Russian have lots of four, five, six, and seven syllable words; imagine how hard life would be in such a place for a blowhard who has problems with three syllable words like "ablation".....
Re: dinosaurs and petroglyphs
gungasnake wrote:Finding raw meat inside tyranosaur bones is one data point indicating a much more recent age for dinosaurs than has been taught; there are other data points.
Try doing a google search on 'dinosaurs petroglyphs'. Basically, Indians have known about this forever and creationists are in the process of finding out about it; there are accurate images of known dinosaur types in very ancient artwork which you see on cave and canyon walls around North America, called "petroglyphs" or 'stone images', basically a type of rock art practiced by Indian ancestors. One example found in Natural Bridges Utah shows an obvious sauropod dinosaur:
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/dino-art-wall-etchings-blanding-utah.jpg
That picture does look like a flying lizard, or dragon.. Of course, this could still be rendering of a real event... I have seen some petroglyphs that would make these look normal by comparison..
Petrohlyphs of not only aliens, and UFO looking objects, but also of electronic circuits, sinewaves, triangle waves, square waves./.. all thousands of years old.. And what makes it seem real is that theyre next to depictions of easily recognized animals, like ducks, deer, etc..
gungasnake wrote:I know, I know, people and the whole world pretty much has been telling you that dinosaurs died out 65,000,000 years ago all your life.
Think about it though. In 1400 most people had heard that the world was flat all THEIR lives. That didn't really make it flat.
When you were little, the whole world told you that Santa Claus and the Easter Rabbit and tooth fairy were real; you found out sooner or later they weren't.
This is simply another such case.
I have to agree with you there.. Its kind of like that whole Bering Strait land bridge they teach you in school.. how all the Indians came over from Asia... I dont buy it for a second...
Interesting theory, Gunga. So you're saying that if a picture exists that someone with an imagination on steroids thinks bears a resemblance to something, then that something really existed?
Isn't the world wondrous?
So I guess that means that all those medieval tapestries with the woman and the unicorn sitting under a tree prove that unicorns really existed.
And all those Chinese and Japanese representations of wingless flying dragons mean there really were wingless flying dragons?
And all those ancient Greek representations of winged horses mean they really went around riding winged horses?
And all those representations of Thor and Athena and Apollo and Jupiter and Poseidon mean all those gods really existed.
And of course all those pictures of Santa Claus you see each year starting shortly after Labor Day mean that Santa Claus really exists.
Great theory, Gunga. You've hit a new high in believability.
Quote: I can only point people to working definitions, blowhard, I can't make anybody read them. Try sticking with two-syllable words, "ablation" is one over that.
AWWW gunga, certain words that are in others working vocabulary are apparently not in yours. If you keep calling attention to the fact that youre ignorant of lot of things , doent help your credibility.
Youve got an interesting, almost pathological way of not addressing people directly.
anything more about P 38's you wish to know, I can help you find it. The Confereate Airforce is quite generous with their information.
Richard Saunders wrote:
I have to agree with you there.. Its kind of like that whole Bering Strait land bridge they teach you in school.. how all the Indians came over from Asia... I dont buy it for a second...
Neither did Vine DeLoria. His "Red Earth, White Lies" demolishes that idea and goes into some detail about dinosaurs in Indian oral traditions in the bargain.
Apparently many if not most American Indians view the 65,000,000 year thing as a white man's fairytale of sorts.
Particularly when you see a description of something like the "water panther" match up 100% with a known type of dinosaur (stegosaur) and zero percent with any modern or even recent animal, it has to arouse your curiousity.
Here we go again, blowhard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_ablation
Quote:
Ablation zone
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On a glacier, the zone of ablation or zone of wastage is the area in which annual loss of snow through melting, evaporation, iceberg calving and sublimation exceeds annual gain of snow and ice on the surface. Of these, melting is most important in most glaciers, but the others, especially iceberg calving, can be significant. Spatially, the zone of ablation can be identified as the part of the glacier below the snowline. The ablation zone often contains meltwater features such as supraglacial, englacial and subglacial streams. It is also an area where much sediment is deposited at the fringes of the glacier. Ablation in a glacier is a key part of the glacier mass balance.
In other words, an "ablation zone" is the polar opposite of what your claim requires. If those planes had gone down in an ablation zone, they'd have been found on the surface under zero feet/layers of ice and snow. You requre an ACCRETION zone or something like that.
Try to figure out the English language before you worry about science.
Any idea when all these will be taught in classes?
Walter Hinteler wrote:Any idea when all these will be taught in classes?
Don't know about Red Earth, White Lies. Several of DeLoria's other books are standard university texts on Indian Affairs; Custer Died For Your Sins is probably the best known. DeLoria viewed all western religion as worthless, and I'd assume nothing he had to say about dinosaurs or ice-age animals had anything to do with Christianity or creationism as we normally understand it.
The basic idea of Red Earth, White Lies is more or less as follows.
Extinction is the flip side of evolution. Evolution requires gradual processes and the idea of any sort of world wide or even continent wide calamity such as the Noachean flood is totally incompatible with evolution. Now, if you DON't believe in continent-wide catastrophes within the age of man on the Earth, then about the only other thing which could theoretically cause the extinction of entire animal populations off of a continent the size of North America is man.
Now, in real life, to do something like that, i.e. to wipe mammoths and/or any of the other large animals which North America lost around 12000 years ago (by standard dating schemes at least) off the entire continent, you need two things in abundance, i.e. mobility and firepower. In real life, the first time man ever had that sort of an abundance of mobility and firepower was with the armies of Chengis Khan and his immediate successors.
Thus the idea of Indian ancestors on foot without even having the wheel and with the kinds of weapons they had causing the recent megafauna extinctions is basically ludicrous. Nonetheless that is precisely what is usually taught in schools, and they call this the "overkill hypothesis" or "blitzkrieg overkill hypothesis".
In other words, Indian ancestors usually get blaimed for the loss of 40 species of large animals 12000 years ago. Now, knowing the attitudes which Indians have towards animals and nature, it should not be difficult to comprehend why they find this idea insulting.
Red Earth, White Lies is basically a methodical demolition of the overkill hypothesis.
gungasnake wrote:Red Earth, White Lies is basically a methodical demolition of the overkill hypothesis.
A deeply flawed methodical demolition of the overkill hypothesis.
An argument from which is culled a concluding statement for no other reason than to provide a pseud an excuse for yet another meaningless assertion.
Why was the argument "deeply flawed". It is childish and bad mannered to simply state that the argument is "deeply flawed".
Let's face it- it is bad mannered to insult everyone's intelligence in such a crass manner.
Give us your answering argument ros. People are much more likely to be persuaded by gunga as things stand. He makes some sort of sense. Your assertion makes no sense at all except to those sat at your feet waiting enthralled for your pearls of wisdom to fall upon them.
Let us, for the sake of argument, say that dinosaurs
weren't extinct 65 million years ago.
This doesn't just magically unravel all the scientific
data that supports the theory of evolution. This hardly
even touches the biological evidence.
The question about dating schemes is one relatively small nail in the coffin of evolution; there are a hundred or so others, including many much larger ones.
The biggest problem involving time is the Haldane Dilemma which arises from a study of population genetics and the amounts of time which it takes to spread ANY genetic change throughout any sort of a herd of animals. The basic reality is that no version of a dating scheme is long enough for our present biosphere to have evolved.
Re: dinosaurs and petroglyphs
gungasnake wrote:Finding raw meat inside tyranosaur bones is one data point indicating a much more recent age for dinosaurs than has been taught; there are other data points.
I still haven't been able to get past the first sentence in this thread.
And THEN gunga has the audacity to state..
gungasnake wrote:I can only point people to working definitions, blowhard, I can't make anybody read them. Try sticking with two-syllable words, "ablation" is one over that.
It seems you even have problems with one syllable words Gunga. What is the working definition of meat? I have never known meat to be found "inside bones."
spendius wrote: People are much more likely to be persuaded by gunga as things stand. He makes some sort of sense.
What sort of sense would Gunga be making spendius?
The same sense that Jocko makes after 12 pints when he expounds on how it has been proven Shakespeare never wrote his plays, but rather, Oscar Wilde wrote them for him. Do you nod sagely then spendius and agree that he is making some sort of sense?
Re: dinosaurs and petroglyphs
parados wrote:It seems you even have problems with one syllable words Gunga. What is the working definition of meat? I have never known meat to be found "inside bones."
You see that with your eyes, parados.
God made the world in only six days, with any helping hand.
So, some minor mistakes might have happened - that's btw the reason, why no-one ever saw the operating manual not to speak of a warrant or hotline for complains :wink:
Wow , I missed alot while I was out "playing geologist" in the field. I guess gunga, after youve looked up ablation zone, you feel confident that it only means receding? The entire southern portion of Greenland is defined as an ablation zone by Alley and others (guys who know). All youve done is look up on Wikipedia which is, ok, if thats all you have. My definition is waay better and is more complete. (I actually see that Wiki added some of my change suggestions from your previous post) Thanks for the tipoff.
As far as Vine DelOria, I win the bet that youd be posting about this "folk teller" within 2 days after I first mentioned him. The fact that he practised LAw means that he knows squat about science reserraqch of his own training and devic'
es , so his credentials are every bit as valid as Phil Johnson whose resurgent "ID" philosophy is pretty much similarly debunked. Delorias view about the Bering Strait Theory being wrong is an area where solid science is showing some agreement (but not in favor of the "Native Americans" but instead Europeans , and at a much earlier date ). Real Indian philosophers, writers and anthropologists include Phillip Deloria(vines son who has a "mixed emotion " about his dads work; Frank Waters, who was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Literature 5 times, and Darcy McNickel whose work in ethnohistory and anthropology overshadows Delorias from a factual standpont.
OH YEH, about that "stogosaur" petroglyph What you call 100% accurate "cartoon" of a stegosaur is truly laughable. Its not even close. You have to be blind as a bat
Wheres the spikey tail
why horns on the head?
SPines are shown , Steggies had plates
Head shape is waay off
Admit it, its even a baad petroglyph of a "whatever"
If you ever want to debate the basis and facts of isotopic age dating Id be more than happy to give you a three hour head start in a 3.25 hour debate. I think Id only need a few moments to punch a hole in your arguments, and I wont use any resources.
Re: dinosaurs and petroglyphs
Walter Hinteler wrote:parados wrote:It seems you even have problems with one syllable words Gunga. What is the working definition of meat? I have never known meat to be found "inside bones."
You see that with your eyes, parados.
God made the world in only six days, with any helping hand.
So, some minor mistakes might have happened - that's btw the reason, why no-one ever saw the operating manual not to speak of a warrant or hotline for complains :wink:
On the first day he should have created the "technical writer." Then we wouldn't have after market manuals written by the end user.
