Is 'liking children' wrong, if you don't harm kids?

OCCOM BILL wrote:

Eorl wrote:
Mame,

No, or I wouldn't have to argue it, would I?

It's quite possible that instant death for any peadophilic thought would reduce the number of children abused. Hope you enjoy that world.

Perhaps you have a more practical solution to offer?
More fantastic thoughts over a suggestion that was never made.

How so?

This whole topic is about whether paedophiles are defined by thoughts alone.

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Eorl wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Eorl wrote:
Mame,

No, or I wouldn't have to argue it, would I?

It's quite possible that instant death for any peadophilic thought would reduce the number of children abused. Hope you enjoy that world.

Perhaps you have a more practical solution to offer?
More fantastic thoughts over a suggestion that was never made.

How so?

This whole topic is about whether paedophiles are defined by thoughts alone.

Produce a link where anyone suggested "instant death for any peadophilic thought".

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

I think Dennis Miller offered appropriate advice for the potential sickos: "If you're having inappropriate thoughts about children and you think you're capable of following through on them, don't tell anyone. Just put a gun to your head and take one for the team."

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Eorl wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
I think Dennis Miller offered appropriate advice for the potential sickos: "If you're having inappropriate thoughts about children and you think you're capable of following through on them, don't tell anyone. Just put a gun to your head and take one for the team."

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This bears repeating, and repeating, and repeating.

dlowan wrote:

I wonder what a person reading this, who is just acknowledging a problem, would feel if they read Bill's advice to just kill themselves, for example, and what effect it would have on their daring to disclose.

Actually, that particular piece of appalling advice means I am out of this thread........I will start saying what I think otherwise...and it also takes up energy that can be better used elsewhere.

To anyone reading this with a problem:

Ignore the Bills.....speak to a therapist, to trusted friends, to a telephone help line...whatever it takes ......not everyone will act with primitive anger, and you can get support.

The people I spoke of above WERE very brave, and everyone they chose to speak with has helped them to manage their problem safely.......as a large team.

Do not keep silence...you need to act now if you have fantasies about kids, especially if they are increasing.

And there ARE programs to work with offenders...in and out of prison. I don't know how effective they are, but they are surely worth a try.

But, the earlier you act the better...before you touch a kid. Not everyone is so primitive as to think you are a doomed monster.

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And in cased you missed it:

ehBeth wrote:

This bears repeating, and repeating, and repeating.

dlowan wrote:
I wonder what a person reading this, who is just acknowledging a problem, would feel if they read Bill's advice to just kill themselves, for example, and what effect it would have on their daring to disclose.

Actually, that particular piece of appalling advice means I am out of this thread........I will start saying what I think otherwise...and it also takes up energy that can be better used elsewhere.

To anyone reading this with a problem:

Ignore the Bills.....speak to a therapist, to trusted friends, to a telephone help line...whatever it takes ......not everyone will act with primitive anger, and you can get support.

The people I spoke of above WERE very brave, and everyone they chose to speak with has helped them to manage their problem safely.......as a large team.

Do not keep silence...you need to act now if you have fantasies about kids, especially if they are increasing.

And there ARE programs to work with offenders...in and out of prison. I don't know how effective they are, but they are surely worth a try.

But, the earlier you act the better...before you touch a kid. Not everyone is so primitive as to think you are a doomed monster.

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Hmmm, taking one for the team. . .

That would of course include drunk driving as*holes who endanger the lives of women and little girls.

The recidivism rate among these human scum is high.

If you think you're capable of driving drunk again, and you know you are, don't tell anyone. Just put a gun to your head and take one for the team.

GO TEAM!

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Repeating dlowan's suggestion doesn't prove anything. She cannot prove
that these people WILL NOT act on their inclination. A pedophile cannot
be in control all the time. I cannot prove they will act on it, however, statistics tell a pretty grim tale.

In my circle of friends are several therapist, and we talk frequently of
this subject matter. They of course never would promote themselves
on a public message board and they never would give advice in such
a setting either, they're obliged by their code of ethics. Perhaps these
things are different in Australia.

Nonetheless, there is a difference of opinion among therapists, and
among people.

Every person fantasizing about children in a sexual manner is a pedophile. This is established by the American Psychiatric Association which I quoted a couple of pages back. So let there be no mistake what a pedophile is and what not.

Unfortunately, the number of child abuse cases raises steadily from year
to year, and this should be our all concern: the children involved in this
who cannot fend for themselves and will be scarred for life.

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I like what Dlowan said in the post that was repeated several times.

I see no good coming from encouraging people to keep dark secrets, where they can fester and get infected worse.
There isn't even a chance to heal something that is not acknowledged and brought into some sort of open air, where a person can have a sounding board of level council.

I do think any thoughts of children in a sexual manner is cause for serious concern. It should be addressed ASAP. Faster than fast. Number One priority for someone who is having such thoughts.

What worries me more than those who have the thoughts, and are troubled by them, because they do have a sense that they are not healthy and can lead to serious trouble - are those who would never speak up or seek treatment because they do not see it as wrong. They do not see it as a problem to fix - their ethical framework and emotional level may be such that they see it as 'love' or 'healthy' or 'great for both involved'.

For those who have even an inkling that thoughts of children in a sexual manner is 'wrong' or simply: unhealthy, troublesome, leading down a slippery road:
I hope that they can have the courage to seek out someone like Dlowan.

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CalamityJane wrote:

Unfortunately, the number of child abuse cases raises steadily from year
to year, and this should be our all concern.

You think our side of the discussion shows any less concern? It doesn't.

Does the number of child abuse cases rise, or does the number of reported cases rise? The increase may be a good thing.

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I'm on the side of light, wherever that is. In my own extended family, I've seen so much harm, first from family and then from authorities, that I can only wail.

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Eorl wrote:

And in cased you missed it:

I didn't miss anything. Interesting response to seeing your foolishness illuminated. Not.

I see IB can't differentiate between a DUI accident and the deliberate targeting of children. That's almost as stupid as Chai's comparing it to offensive banter. Fascinating how far some people's minds stray from reality. The reality is millions of kids get victimized each year by sick adults. There is no good reason to trivialize this disgusting fact with moronic comparisons to DUI and inferentially offensive banter. There is no good reason to pretend a suggestion that dangerous sickos take themselves out of the equation is the same as suggesting that everyone who has a passing thought should. I don't know if it's hyper PC BS, a desire to appear to be the extra caring person, or just a show solidarity out of friendship... but fallacious idiocy, for whatever purpose, remains fallacious idiocy.

Don't like Dennis's suggestion? Or the fact that I advocate sickos following it? Try attacking it head on instead of with these idiotic exaggerations and distractions. Go ahead and explain why I should care more about the pedophiles than the victims of their heinous desires.

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Bill and Eorl, I think I get both of you, most associate with Eorl's takes.
Manana.

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What do you mean Osso? Eorl Quixote showed up to argue adamantly against a position that was never forwarded. When this was pointed out; he pretended it didn't happen.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

......, or just a show solidarity out of friendship...

I think that what it is with several posts here.

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Occom Bill, there are no "friendship" deals going on here. This is serious stuff. You illuminated nothing, I was trying to avoid a silly quoting war, but if you insist.....how many peadophiles think themselves NOT capable of acting on it? You original quoted suggestion is simple and obvious, it really doesn't need any dumbing down by me.

From where I sit.....this all has to do with selfishness and empathy, with the position that what's best for me and my family is the most important thing, at the expense of what is truly civilised. A very similar discussion took place on the Virginia Tech thread with similar divisions of thought.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Neo seems to have missed an important part of Dennis's sentiment before maligning him.

Dennis Miller (paraphrased according to Bill's memory) wrote:
capable of following through on them
. . .

Sorry about that, Bill. It doesn't change my overall assessment, however.

We are all capable of following through on our thoughts.

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Eorl wrote:

Occom Bill, there are no "friendship" deals going on here. This is serious stuff. You illuminated nothing, I was trying to avoid a silly quoting war, but if you insist.....how many peadophiles think themselves NOT capable of acting on it? You original quoted suggestion is simple and obvious, it really doesn't need any dumbing down by me.

From where I sit.....this all has to do with selfishness and empathy, with the position that what's best for me and my family is the most important thing, at the expense of what is truly civilised. A very similar discussion took place on the Virginia Tech thread with similar divisions of thought.

You are being deliberately dishonest. You deliberately ignored the qualifier in your initial and subsequent responses. Now, finally, you are at least admitting that only actual pedophiles are being addressed by the sentiment, rather than everyone who ever had a passing thought.

To answer your question: I couldn't care less how many pedophiles think themselves NOT capable of acting on it". Those who think they're dangerous likely are and should do something about it. The V-Tech boy should have done the same.

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neologist wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Neo seems to have missed an important part of Dennis's sentiment before maligning him.

Dennis Miller (paraphrased according to Bill's memory) wrote:
capable of following through on them
. . .
Sorry about that, Bill. It doesn't change my overall assessment, however.

We are all capable of following through on our thoughts.

You're playing with words rather than addressing the actual intent of the sentiment. Watch:
I am capable of intentionally killing a child for no reason at all.
However:
I am not capable of intentionally killing a child for no reason at all.
Both statements are true. Now if I ask myself if I am capable of intentionally killing a child; in a manner like Dennis's question was posed, which answer do you suppose is relevant?

I think you're perfectly capable of interpreting what's meant by Dennis's sentiment. Wordplay is a boring distraction.

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What is stupid is tivializing crimes whereby kids get killed and maimed by DUI as*holes as merely "accidents," and claiming they don't compare to other victimizations of kids. This is fallacious idiocy.

Kids get victimized by DUI "accidents" every year, by self-serving, DUI SOB's, OB. This fact is not trivial.

Dangerous sickos like child rapists and drunk drivers should take themselves out of the equation. These as*holes' potential to victimize kids is too great a risk to the team.

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Is 'liking children' wrong, if you don't harm kids?

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