Keep Guns from the insane: Obama

Obama quote:



Knowing that a person has received "mental health serivces" doesn't tell you anything about his/her mental health or for that matter, the purpose behind his/her visit to the Clinic. That's privileged information, not accessible to the general public.

When was the last time Obama visited a Journal on Mental Health Law?

It doesn't have to tell you what their mental health issues are or the purpose of thier visit.

The "he" in this case was involuntarily committed because a judge determined, based on the testimoniy of menatl health professionals, that he was an imminent danger to himself and/or others.

The court record is NOT privileged information. It is a public record and should have, IMO, been reported so that it would have precluded him from ever buying a firearm.

Obama has it right on this...

A temporary detention ( as in the Cho case ) alone does not qualify as an "involuntary hospitalization," state officials said.

Dr. James Reinhard, Virginia commissioner for mental health, said that a temporary detention order was meant primarily to permit a patient to be evaluated and should not be considered a final determination of a person's mental state.

As for determining that a person is "mentally incapacitated," Virginia law sets a high bar: that a person cannot meet his own basic needs without the help of a guardian.

LA Times

Yeah, I know. That's why the system needs to be fixed. A Temporary Order DOES meet the federal standard for disqualification for purchasing firearms. At the Federal level the only bar is that the person is judged to be an "imminent danger".

Sorry, but "basic needs" are issues of being able to feed, cloth, house and maintain one's health. Owning a firearm may be a right but it isn't anywhere near a "basic need".

But as early as 2005, police and school administrators were wrestling with what to do with the young man, who was accused of stalking two female students and was sent to a mental health facility after police obtained a temporary detention order.

The two women complained to campus police that Cho was contacting them with "annoying" telephone calls and e-mail messages in November and December 2005, campus Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said.

Cho was referred to the university's disciplinary system, but Flinchum said the woman declined to press charges, and the case apparently never reached a hearing.
However, after the second incident, the department received a call from an acquaintance of Cho's, who was concerned that he might be suicidal, Flinchum said. Police obtained a temporary detention order from a local magistrate, and in December of that year, Cho was voluntarily but briefly admitted to Carilion St. Albans Behavioral Health Center in Radford, NBC News' Jim Popkin reported.

To issue a detention order under Virginia law, a magistrate must find both that the subject is "mentally ill and in need of hospitalization or treatment" and that the subject is "an imminent danger to himself or others, or is so seriously mentally ill as to be substantially unable to care for himself."

According to a doctor's report accompanying the order, which was first reported by the Richmond Times-Dispatch, Cho was "depressed," but "his insight and judgment are normal." The doctor, a clinical psychologist who was not identified, noted that Cho "denies suicidal ideations."

Under the law, the magistrate could have issued a stronger detention order mandating inpatient treatment, but there was no indication Wednesday that such an order was ever entered. A spokesman for Carilion St. Albans told NBC News that he could not discuss Cho's case because of patient confidentiality and privacy laws, but he said the hospital was cooperating with the investigation.

Otherwise, Flinchum said, there were no further police incidents involving Cho until the deadly shootings Monday, first in a young woman's dormitory room and then at a classroom building across campus. Neither of the alleged stalking victims was among the victims Monday.

Free internet press

Still don't get it, do you??

There is more explosive power, much more, in a gallon of gasoline than there is in more 308 ammo than you could carry. How you gonna keep Cho from buying gasoline?

Ordinary black powder is made from charcoal, sulfer, and bullshit (or any other sort of manure or biomass). How you gonna keep all of that out of Cho's hands?

Cars kill far more people than guns every year. How you gonna keep Cho away from cars?? I mean, a lunatic out for blood could just drive up onto the curb in many places and run up more of a score than Cho did.

Then again, Jack the Ripper never owned a gun. How you gonna keep knives out of cho's reach??

What about Axes (Lizzie Bordon never owned a gun either...)

What about the possibility of lunatics simply banding together and VOTING human sacrifices for themselves as the vermin which infest Durham NC recently tried to do when they returned the Fong to office as DA long after the realities of the Duke Lacrosse case were well known?? You gonna outlaw the de-mokkker-Rat party??

I mean, those losers are still protesting the fact that their vile little scheme was broken up:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1821102/posts


Basic reality: If somebody is too dangerous to be walking around, then in theory at least, he needs to be LOCKED UP. Nothing else you could plausibly do is guaranteed to keep him from doing damage. And, if that idea is unacceptable to you, then you simple have to accept the costs of having these guys walking around and deal with it, as we accept the prices we pay for having motor vehicles.

still worried the black helicoptors are comin' to round up yer hardware, ehh?

I get the difference that temporary detention is for evaluation and that the formal commitment process is where the line is. Been there, as a witness for commitment, not happily or easily. (Maybe that is not where the line is, unclear re conflicting articles.)

On the other hand, maybe numbers of temporary detentions could trigger a gun sale NO. Not that that would have helped here.

I am not blaming any one culture, let alone people from Korea, but I do think in some cases there is social embarassment, re mental illness, that has been with us all for a long time, and in other cases, genuine fears about devils, and so on.... or just basic flat out fear, that keep people from seeking help.

So, maybe some of this obscene over the top coverage is arguable, if it brings people to seek help early.

My newest worry is that people go into tharn about people with autism.
Education, we all need it.

I agree!

IMO, once someone is determined to be a danger the right to buy a firearm should be suspended - first time, every time.. If, at some later point they decide they want to buy a firearm they could appeal the decision and allow the judge to decide if the are no longer a danger, just as a judge decided they were.

That makes sense to me.

That makes sense to me too, fishin' and sozobe, though I've some qualms. One time could have some other explanation, people playing a joke, dirty trick, etc., by reporting a person.

Someone could try Osso, but I don't think that would ever get to the level of a finding that the person is an imminent danger. To get there the person would still need to be taken for temporary observation by a State Licensed and Court recognized mental health professional. It is the opinions of those mental health professionals that the court relies on in determing if the person is an imminent danger.

If I was playing a trick on someone and reported them to police and the person was taken to a mental health professional they'd probbaly figure out pretty quickly that the person wasn't a danger. Getting the mental health professionals to go before a judge and swear that someone is a danger to themselves and/or others is still a pretty high hurdle.

If I were to put the rights of the individual vs. the infringement by State on a scale of 1-100 with the Individual at the 100 marker, I'd say the current laws in this area are at about a 97. I think the change that I would recommend would drop that by maybe a point or two.